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WADE WINGLER: Welcome to ATFAQ, Assistive Technology Frequently Asked Questions with your host Brian Norton, Director of Assistive Technology at Easter Seals Crossroads. This is a show in which we address your questions about assistive technology, the hardware, software, tools and gadgets that help people with disabilities lead more independent and fulfilling lives. Have a question that you’d like answered on our show? Send a tweet with the hashtag #ATFAQ, call our listener line at 317-721-7124, or send us an email at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. The world of assistive technology has questions, and we have answers. And now here’s your host, Brian Norton.
BRIAN NORTON: Hello and welcome to ATFAQ episode 28. I’m really glad that you guys are here today. We have Belva Smith, our local guru of all things blind, low vision. Want to say hey?
BELVA SMITH: Hey everybody.
BRIAN NORTON: Also have Mark Stewart, the guru of mobility, cognition stuff. Mark?
MARK STEWART: Hey everybody. We also have Wade in the room, the popular host of AT update.
WADE WINGLER: Good morning everybody. Good morning, good afternoon, whenever you’re listening. It’s morning for us.
BRIAN NORTON: We also have Armando the IT guy here.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: Hey. How are you?
BRIAN NORTON: Armando is here to help us answer a couple very specific questions. Before we do that —
WADE WINGLER: Armando, do you really have a last name or is your name the IT guy?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: It really is the IT guy. That’s how it is. It was actually just Armando. I tacked on the IT guys before.
WADE WINGLER: So like Sher, Prince. There you go.
BELVA SMITH: Prince!
WADE WINGLER: Right. So we are recording the day after we learned that Prince died. The show will come out slightly after that.
BRIAN NORTON: And Wade is the only one that wore purple today.
WADE WINGLER: That’s true.
MARK STEWART: It was raining and a Minnesota Twins game yesterday and the colored the field purple.
WADE WINGLER: That’s pretty cool.
BRIAN NORTON: Just want to quickly and show some things for you guys. If you’re a new listening to our show, this is a question and answer show so we ask our listening community to send this question and you can do that in a variety of different ways. We have a listener line that you can call and give us a voicemail at 317-721-7124. You can email us at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. Or you can send us a tweet with the hashtag #ATFAQ. We collect lots of AT related questions, assisted technology related questions. As a panel we try to answer those questions as best we can. We also want folks who are listening to also chime in. If you guys have answers that we might not get to or maybe other suggestions that we might not mention on the show, send us to those as well. We like to play those as well on the show so that if there is something you thought of or some experience as you guys have had, it would be helpful for folks to know about. We definitely want to share those.
WADE WINGLER: We love when that happens. We love the feedback. We are getting more of it these days.
BRIAN NORTON: Great. If you want to tell people how to find our show, you find it in a variety different ways. You can find it on iTunes. You can go to our website, www.eastersealstech.com. Or you can find us on stitcher. Just a wide variety of places to find us. I think we can also find us on Google Play Store.
WADE WINGLER: The Google Play Store just this last week added podcast to their offering. So if you go to your android app for Google play or you go to the Google play on the website, it’s under music. There is now a button for podcast. We’ve actually been working with Google behind the scene for a few months now so that on the day that that launched, all three of the show that we produced out of here, Assistive Technology Frequently Asked Questions, Assistive Technology Update, and Accessibility Minute are all in the Google Play Store and getting some more listens for us. So welcome to our Google Play audience.
BRIAN NORTON: Excellent. Check us out. We would love to have you listen. To begin our show today, I wanted to jump into some of that listener feedback that we talked about, the things we love to hear. This is Mary. We will play your voicemail.
SPEAKER: This is Mary Farber calling with a comment about ATFAQ podcast 26. I’m an assistive technology consultant in Kentucky. During that podcast, you all did a great job of addressing android text to speech, apps, and features that are already included on android. That was extremely helpful to me and I’ll believe that a lot of my students. You also talked during that the many great uses of screen readers for people who have good vision but difficult reading. I was so glad that you mentioned that because that has become really important to many of the students in our district. It’s because the voiceover screen reader on iOS are primarily what we have and can be used by them to read anything that doesn’t need OCR technology. So they don’t have to use a lot of different apps. I only have to teach them the one. But because they are sighted, we use a few of the gestures. If I teach them to first navigate to what they want to read so that they don’t have the frustration of gesture changes up to that point, then they use the accessibility shortcut to triple click the home button and turn voiceover on, and then they tapped the starting point and it will read that. But they can do a two fingers up from the top of the screen to get it to read all of what is there and then a two finger single tap to pause and resume. I’m certain that you all are fully aware of that and use that to make technique all the time. But for people like me who are generalists, they may not be aware that you can take a very powerful tool and make it a tool for people who are sighted by teaching them a few gestures that help them to control it instead of it controlling them. I just want to share those tips to maybe encourage people to use that with their students and to decrease frustration by teaching them those control tools. Thank you so very much. You all help me every week when I listen to your program. Thanks a lot.
BRIAN NORTON: Thank you Mary for giving us a call and let us know that. With built-in screen reading technology like voiceover at some of the other ones, you do get a pretty powerful text to speech program for use with really just about anybody. Thanks for sharing that. I’m sure other folks would love the information and would like to know that it is applicable in the school districts that you work in. Hopefully they tried out as well.
BELVA SMITH: I want to add a little bit to what she said if it’s okay. In case folks are wondering about speak screen that she was speaking about, to turn that on you do need to go – because it won’t happen by default — but you do need to go to your settings and then general and accessibility and then speech and turn on. Just above the speak screen you will also find speech selection. That feature will speak any highlighted text.
BRIAN NORTON: I use the speak screen all the time to be able to read through my emails very quickly when I’m trying to multitask. It’s a great opportunity to see that. It does a really good job of highlighting as it goes as well. I know that is a really useful tool for folks to be able to see the work highlighted as it reads it. It’s that multimodal approach to reading. It works out really well. Mark?
MARK STEWART: As she was emphasizing, so someone with a print-based disability or physical access type challenges can have a little bit better access or comfort level or focus more on positioning and things like that while they are learning. Or she could probably speak to this as well or better than me, but she made me think of school and actually studying a little bit more. If you’re getting the auditory feedback, now maybe they can turn and attend to some other things. Those are really good points.
***
BRIAN NORTON: We had a couple of questions this week that focus a little bit more on IT, maybe more than AT. I’ve invited Armando, and we are going to call in the IT guy today.
WADE WINGLER: Armando the IT guy.
BRIAN NORTON: Armando the IT guy is here with us today. I thought we could talk about these. A couple of questions –
WADE WINGLER: By the way, I just had to interrupt. Armando is sitting here in our studio and it is Friday. We do casual here on Fridays. What is that on your shirt?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: PunishPool. So you’ve got Punisher and Deadpool taking it over.
BELVA SMITH: Now my three-year-old grandson would call it skull and bones.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: I’m a big comic book nerd.
WADE WINGLER: Thank you for bringing us our cool factor up a little bit here by doing the comic book stuff. I don’t know, I’m counting two polo shirts in this audience so you are helping out our cool factor.
BRIAN NORTON: I’m going to wear my skull shirt next week.
WADE WINGLER: You don’t have a skull shirt. You are not that cool.
BRIAN NORTON: You’re right.
MARK STEWART: Brian walks around next week with his skull shirt and the tag is out.
WADE WINGLER: I have this for a while.
MARK STEWART: Let’s both get skull shirts and wear them together.
BRIAN NORTON: So the first question I had that came to us was, I heard Apple’s QuickTime is no longer secured and you should get it off your computer. Should I do that?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: Yes, immediately.
WADE WINGLER: Stop recording and do that?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: Let’s anyone go do that right now. Apparently — and there hasn’t been an official release of this — but they did stop supporting the temple Windows. They’ve only told Trend Micro. Apple still is allowing this for download on the website, so don’t do that either. It’s dead for Windows completely. By not uninstalling this, it opens up exports on your computer that will allow — if you go to a certain page to turn something and you use Internet Explorer, Firefox, there are plug-ins that will allow attackers to manipulate code to get into your computer. So you definitely want to uninstall that. It’s always good to update your software and check to see what’s going on, but since Apple hasn’t released anything saying they are not going to support it, you don’t know, so yes I’ll get rid of it.
WADE WINGLER: So this is for windows only?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: To suggest for Windows.
WADE WINGLER: What are you going to do if you’re using QuickTime for some meaningful content? Are people doing that? What are your options? Are there alternative players or are you pretty much stuck at this point?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: There are alternative players that you can use that are constantly updated.
WADE WINGLER: Like VLC?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: VLC is definitely one I use quite often because it can play a multitude of media formats. Not only can it display JPEG’s and some movies, but it can also play .WAV’s, any type of audio format. You could actually rip and burn CDs and compress from this as well, just like you could with QuickTime. VLC is just constantly updated. There is a new version out.
BELVA SMITH: And it is a secure?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: It is. It’s very secure. I’ve not —
BELVA SMITH: Because it’s free, right?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: It is free but I’ve not heard anyone that has used VLC as an expert to attack your PC.
WADE WINGLER: So that is clearly a better choice than Apple which is then we are not supporting it nor are we going to fix these vulnerabilities that we are aware of.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: From what I can see, I guess they’re just any support —
WADE WINGLER: Because it’s Windows.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: I guess, yeah. They just don’t want to support the Windows version anymore.
BRIAN NORTON: But this is only on your Windows computer. If you have it on an Apple computer, it is okay?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: Yes. It’s part of the OS of Mac products and Apple products, so they are going to continue supporting it but just not for Windows.
BRIAN NORTON: Interesting.
BELVA SMITH: So what if I’m using Parallels on my Mac and I got Windows? Is it still going to be vulnerable for me to use it?
BRIAN NORTON: Parallels is a remote desktop – what is it? Is it a virtual machine?
WADE WINGLER: Is a virtual machine.
BRIAN NORTON: It’s a virtual machine on your Mac that lets you run Windows. For those that don’t know that.
WADE WINGLER: I think it’s a risk because if you are vulnerable within QuickTime, within Windows, within parallels, on your Mac, there’s about three layers within there that you could have trouble and you could be vulnerable. Once you are within Windows and the Mac, I don’t know how the security works on that, but I’m going to guess they can still get to all of your other stuff. I would be getting rid of QuickTime within Parallels.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: That’s kind of inception because you’re inside a virtual machine inside of your machine. If it has networking properties, I would say you might still be vulnerable. It’s almost the same thing with Virtual Box. If you’re running that, you are learning something that has network capabilities outside of that, then there is a way back in as well.
BELVA SMITH: Okay.
WADE WINGLER: I would be safe and get rid of it, especially when there are other alternatives like VLC that you can use for free that seem to be more secure.
BRIAN NORTON: That would probably run with parallels, if you’re using Boot Camp on Windows to boot into Windows, anything, that’s interesting.
MARK STEWART: Inception is a reference to a movie. I got that.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: I use that a lot in IT just because —
BELVA SMITH: It sounds good.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: You are in the matrix. It’s not inception.
WADE WINGLER: If you’re going to have Armando on the show regularly, we are going to have to bone up on our comic book stuff and pop-culture stuff because — I don’t know what that means that our IT guy is cooler than our AT folks here.
BRIAN NORTON: I’m working on it. I’m getting a skull shirt next week.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: It would look awesome. I can’t wait for that.
WADE WINGLER: Make sure it matches your Dockers.
MARK STEWART: When are you going to get it?
WADE WINGLER: Field trip.
BRIAN NORTON: This afternoon.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: As soon as we are done here, he’s going to hot topic.
BRIAN NORTON: Target is just down the street.
***
BRIAN NORTON: Our next question is how do I know if my smartphone is encrypted or not? I’ll throw that out to you.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: Starting with android OS 2.35 which is gingerbread, they allowed you to encrypt your phone. It wasn’t set by default. I think starting with lollipop witches – if you don’t know, all android OS versions are named after some food item. 2.35 with gingerbread, then honeycomb, asking sandwich, now we are at marshmallow. It will most likely make you hungry. They actually introduced Kit-Kats with the android logo.
BRIAN NORTON: It’s making me hungry over here by the way.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: It’s kind of fun to play with those operating system names. You can, by default, from lollipop up it’s already encrypted. If you set a pin or a Swipe code, it becomes encrypted automatically. Before those, you had to enable it. It’s not set by default. It’s there but it’s not active. So you would have to check your operating system. To do that you have to go to your settings and scroll to “about phone” and look at “phone identity”, it should tell you what operant system you’re using. It may not be labeled by the food name. It should be — for instance, gingerbread was 2.35, the marshmallow is 6. And it should be in the information. If it is not there, it may be in another setting on your phone depending on the web version of android you’re running. You can check to see which one you have and from there you’ll know. If you want to encrypt your thought at that point, set a passcode or a thumb scan or a swipe code and your phone will become encrypted. If not, you’ll have to go back into the settings and enable it for older versions.
WADE WINGLER: What about iOS?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: IOS is encrypted want to set a passcode as well. Apple phones are really good on security.
WADE WINGLER: Says the FBI.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: If you have an Apple device, I really wouldn’t be too concerned. Even to get their updates, it’s pretty encrypted.
WADE WINGLER: Just make sure you have a passcode set.
BRIAN NORTON: Didn’t they just introduce a six — it used to be four only and now there is a six digit passcode.
BELVA SMITH: That’s true on all the iOS devices because I just set up an iPad yesterday. It’s six digits.
BRIAN NORTON: I heard that’s a pretty big upgrade. Wasn’t there some sort of, how long does it take you to crack a code, four versus six?
WADE WINGLER: I heard a security show recently. If your iPhone or iOS device still has a four digit code on it, you will have to change eventually. In fact, if you have upgraded your OS, the next time you go to change your code, it will force you into a six digit code. But I heard that the strong brute force attacks right now on a four digit code when you hook it up to a computer and tell the computer to try try try try many different combinations, it takes about 24 hours to brute force a four digit passcode on an iPhone. By moving to six, it’s something like a year or two years of brute force attacks before you will be able to get a cracked in. Just going from a four digit code to a six digit code, you are exponentially increasing your security from those kinds of attacks. I didn’t like it. I have my four digit code that I’ve been using that my fingers were programmed to tap in, but I want to six and its not a big deal. You get a lot more security for that.
BELVA SMITH: I watched a show last week and or the one before that made me go, wow, because I didn’t realize how easy — they were saying with a person’s phone number, you can learn everything about them. Of course that is their cell phone number, not landline. And then your iPhone is tracking everything you do. They can do things like turn your camera on — that may be kind of nervous. At that point, I said maybe I want to take my phone and set it in the other room just to make sure that nobody is watching me.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: I think I had seen that. I think it was on 60 Minutes.
BELVA SMITH: It was 60 Minutes.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: They were talking about the Code 7. I wouldn’t worry too much about that, simply because, one, software has to be installed on your phone in order for them to do those things. The companies may be able to enable those, and even some of the government may be able to do that. But, Belva, I don’t think you’re on a watch list, so I think you’re okay.
BELVA SMITH: Now you sound just like my son who is also an IT guy. Mom, trust me, nobody is interested in your bank account.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: That’s completely true. I don’t like it when they start stories like that and say your phone is vulnerable.
BELVA SMITH: And make me paranoid when I don’t need to be?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: Because there really is no reason to be paranoid. You’re not doing anything illegal. I wouldn’t be too concerned about it.
BRIAN NORTON: It’s a little bit of shock value on their part to get people to watch the shows. Security is — I’ve seen shows where they are talking about people hacking into your baby monitor and talking to your kids at night when you’re not there. Wow, they can do that? Who really has the time to sit around making my life that horrible?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: There are different levels to that. The baby monitor thing is always interesting because some of those go off of radio frequencies. Yes, those are easily hacked, but you shouldn’t be watching your kid over Wi-Fi anyway.
BRIAN NORTON: You have a point there. It’s almost too convenient these days. We’ve made everything wireless.
WADE WINGLER: Armando, I think you need to go, right?
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: Yes, I have to dive back into the matrix and fix things and look at code. That’s what I do here.
WADE WINGLER: Because you’re a ninja.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: That’s right. I’m a matrix ninja.
BELVA SMITH: Awesome.
MARK STEWART: There was a movie reference in there.
WADE WINGLER: Good job, Mark. Your cofactor is catching up.
BRIAN NORTON: Thank you for joining us, Armando. We really appreciate it.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: My pleasure, thank you.
***
BRIAN NORTON: So our next question is from Lindsay. Lindsay’s question is, I have a general question that I was hoping you could help me with. I have an employee in a professional environment that needs a talk to text software option, an example like Dragon NaturallySpeaking for their laptop which is a PC. Their primary goals are to use it for emails, Word, and presentations. Do you have a recommendation on one or a version that is compatible with Explorer 10 or 11? Any advice you could provide is much appreciated. So looking for basically a speech to text option for Windows computer and looking for one that will work with Explorer 10 and 11. I’m assuming they probably have some work related applications that require Internet access. I’ll throw that out to the group. Looking over there at Mark. He probably has some good things to say.
WADE WINGLER: Mark is generally out go-to speech guy.
MARK STEWART: She’s on the right track. To get right to it, Dragon NaturallySpeaking sounds like probably version Premium. Thirteen is the current one as we are doing this show. There is Windows speech, but when she is talking about professional environment, the add-on features with Dragon at the price that Dragon is, is I think a really good bet. I think Dragon. Good quality USB headset, get into that as needed. We’ve done that in different shows.
BELVA SMITH: So not that I’m going to get when I buy the dragon?
MARK STEWART: Correct.
BRIAN NORTON: In fact, Dragon doesn’t come with a headset now.
MARK STEWART: Is that right?
BRIAN NORTON: Most of the dragon that I get is just the software now. They don’t seemingly come with a headset unless you get a very specific version like the wireless version of it. Then you will get a wireless headset with it. But I believe the basic version, just your Dragon premium software which is that middle-of-the-road software, I don’t believe it comes with a headset anymore.
MARK STEWART: Middle of the road, pricewise, but just to put people at ease, with regard to the speech engines, the software that drives the ability of it to be accurate is the same in premium that it is in professional or medical or legal or anything.
WADE WINGLER: So it’s just bells and whistles. The main core of the software is the same, right?
MARK STEWART: Right. Bells and whistles that may or may not be applicable become important bells and whistles if you have a particular application.
BRIAN NORTON: You mentioned the professional environment which is interesting because, yeah, Dragon is a more robust system. It has a lot of flexibility, gives you a lot more commands, especially with applications that aren’t standard types of applications. It’s just a really good program. There are a couple of different options that you can choose from based on what your needs are. I think and often misconception with speech to text software is a lot of folks, at least in our industry, look at it as it’s the hands-free access to the computer for folks who can’t get access to a traditional keyboard or mouse. But for a lot of folks, it’s just a faster way to do input. You don’t have to – if you have access to a keyboard and mouse, you can still put the cursor into an edit box and just don’t speak what you want to put in there. It just makes it much faster. I work with a lot of people don’t have any real difficulty, maybe a little bit of difficulty but not tremendous difficulty using the keyboard mouse, and I still, for productivity’s sake, get them Dragon because it does speed up and put quite a bit.
MARK STEWART: That’s a great point. I’ll expound on that a little bit. Two things for her to run with. One is right of what you’re saying, but you may not be thinking of this, so she goes to Dragon, use of the keyboard and mouse and Dragon at the same time. That’s one of the things about Dragon. They work really well together. That may very well be the most productive thing. Obviously she has some need for it, but if there is some capability with physical access, go ahead and take advantage of it as much as possible. With our transition students as we talk about a lot, we are careful to continue to encourage them to use their physical abilities, for example in college as much as they can, because we don’t want them to lose those abilities.
One other thing, and really this is a good one that we’ve found over the years working in the school or work environment, primarily the work environment, where we might be on site or often on-site at workplaces where they have archaic software or — what are the terms? Sometimes it’s old DOS based systems and things like that. Those more archaic ones or really anything that is certified by Dragon that hasn’t gone through the testing at Dragon, will most likely not work that well with Dragon. What can be very confusing to someone who is new to try and Dragon out is that Dragon most often works a little bit or intermittently with those programs. Strange things happen. Some commands work but other commands don’t. The speech accuracy itself falls off in some of those programs. Sometimes it will work with most everything, and that it just doesn’t work the next time. Really what is going on there is just software complex and compatibility issues because it hasn’t gone through all the checks and balances. So there are two things with Dragon. Sooner than later, rather than fighting do that, just understand what is going on there. And Dragon have their own program called Dictation Box which is made to be a workaround for that. Actually when you first get the program, if Dragon recognizes that there is this third-party program that it is working with, it will automatically pull up a dictation box. That is a great try and understanding on their part. I haven’t enjoyed the experience with dictation box. I’ve seen it as really clunky. There is a transfer button. It doesn’t work, doesn’t work by voice. That may change with the next version. It’s one of those types of things, but for right now, my go to him sooner than later, helping somebody on a job site like that, might try it in the third-party program, might try dictation box once, but then I’m not messing around. I actually disabled dictation box. I use Dragon pad, which is Dragon’s own word processing program. Talk about Dragon being certified to work with something. It’s going to work with their program. Then even for just line item self. If there is really that challenge working with a third-party program, like that one line of stuff by voice, use any command you want, accuracy will be as high as possible. Either by hand if they can or by voice, you have one extra step which is copy and paste and drop it into the edit box. If you’re talking about paragraphs, you’re writing case notes or something into a third-party program, now we are talking about just one copy and paste for a whole bunch of lines where he used commands and everything. My go to sooner than later is DragonPad. I see you guys are nodding and I know you work in the same trenches. You agree with that?
BRIAN NORTON: Yeah. With the DragonPad, you will get higher recognition accuracy. You are right, it is not nearly as clunky.
BELVA SMITH: I have people use that as a training tool just as a practice.
BRIAN NORTON: I would go back and say if Lindsay is actually just wondering if this is even an option for the person and you don’t have the resources to go ahead and run out and purchase Dragon, you may just simply use the built-in Windows speech recognition. It is pretty good especially if you’re doing some of those basic things he is asking for, email, Word, presentations.
BELVA SMITH: Email is if you because I’m wondering are we using Outlook or are we using — if we are using Outlook, I would definitely suggest that we start out trying the Windows speech recognition with a good headset. You don’t want to use a cheap headset.
BRIAN NORTON: What I have found even with Internet-based email, Internet-based email and voice recognition. It just turns out a pain in the butt. It just becomes really challenging, lots of checkboxes, trying to check on the right email. Unless you are using the mouse cursor and maneuver it by voice to get to the right one, it’s just better if use a keyboard and mouse to get access to that stuff.
MARK STEWART: What are your thoughts on Outlook, Belva? Dragon is certified with Outlook.
BELVA SMITH: I’m not talking about Dragon. I’m talking about using the Windows speech recognition. It’s only going to work really smoothly with Outlook because the Windows speech recognition, anytime you get outside of the Microsoft programs, then you’re going to have some issues. That’s where you definitely have to look at Dragon.
BRIAN NORTON: It’s kind of like that Microsoft certified, so if Microsoft puts out a product, the speech recognition is probably going to work pretty well with it. The other one I would throw out there, if you’re using a Mac, Mac has pretty good speech recognition as well. It is as good as the built-in Windows speech recognition. I’ve had some pretty good success with that. Also if you’re looking for a chrome extension, I’ve also used a app called voice recognition which works really great with Google Docs. That makes also another good speech to text option for folks.
BELVA SMITH: Because she is thing Explorer, I think they are using Windows.
MARK STEWART: I think we gave her some good information, but she mentioned Internet Explorer. Is that to get to her email? Is she really trying to navigate around?
BELVA SMITH: That’s what I was wondering.
BRIAN NORTON: What I am finding is what a lot of third-party software, if you’re using some business software, a lot of things are hybrid IE types of applications. I’m wondering if they are trying to get access to that as well.
BELVA SMITH: If so, I am definitely saying Dragon is going to be necessary.
***
BRIAN NORTON: Our next question is, when it comes to assistive technology and other academic supports in higher education, what should a parent know? This is a pretty broad question.
BELVA SMITH: That’s a big question.
WADE WINGLER: You should know it all.
BRIAN NORTON: A couple of things that pop into my mind — and I will start out our conversation a little bit. In answer to the question, I think the first thing you should understand is it is different. It’s a different atmosphere when you’re in the K-12 environment to when you move into higher Ed. In the K-12 environment, you oftentimes have an individualized education plan and there are supports that are mandated and put around you. Oftentimes there is a team, your IEP team will meet with you and help put certain things in place for you to be able to put those academic supports around you and help you to be successful in the K-12 environment. Although a lot of the things that are available through the K-12 environment are available as you get into higher Ed, it becomes a lot more all about self advocacy. You have to go out and seek it out, they’re not going to be coming to you saying hey let me help you. You are going to have to go and ask for the help and advocate on your own for that.
WADE WINGLER: I would suggest that in the K-12 environment and in college or other high education, there is still some advocacy that needs to happen because although some school systems and educators are good about making sure the AT is built in to the IEP, that plan, I think a lot of – anecdotally, I have found that a lot of organizations just skip over that or say assistive technology is not necessary. That turns in it to a lot of angsty, challenging situation where a parent advocate is having to go back to the school and fight for things. To your point, that is a situation where there is a system and there are at least checkboxes that make somebody asked the question. In college, I think it’s harder for some students to disclose especially if you are learning about learning disabilities and other things that aren’t quite so obvious. I think in some colleges, the supports aren’t as clearly identifiable. Maybe there is a DSS office and most syllabi that I have found say something about if you need accommodations then reach out and make that happen. It puts a lot of that back on the students. Furthermore I found that a lot of college instructors don’t know what to do when a student requests an accommodation or shows signs of needing an accommodation. I’ve found that time and time again where advocacy is so important in that situation.
MARK STEWART: Broad question. I’m going to take the bullet point approach with this. We all work in these trenches with transition all the time so it didn’t take me long to do these bullet points and I think I am going to die. Of course you guys touched on a number of these things. For example, within your states, there are universities that are more known for working with folks with disabilities. Consider that. There are specialty universities around the country that work with students with learning disabilities, landmark college in Vermont is only for students with learning disabilities that there are upsides and downsides to it. But it is something to consider. Especially some of these universities that are known for working more proactively with students with various learning disabilities. I think we would all agree, they have some really progressive and helpful transition programs. I am a big fan of integration whenever possible, but I’m really okay with the approach they are taking, because — tell me if I’m wrong — some of those programs are segregated but they are kind of summer camp programs, get you ready to be independent and integrated once the fall starts. Would you agree? Empowering type programs now go out there and be with everybody kind of things.
WADE WINGLER: In my experience, I’ve been involved in some of those programs. There is one at another university, IUPUI here in Indianapolis, Indiana University Purdue University in Indianapolis, does a similar thing where they really spend a couple of days on campus doing some orientation but making sure the students and parents are aware of the resources so that one these things come up with a happen at the very beginning of the academic experience or after, there are some challenges, they know where those resources are and it is not a cold call to the adaptive at office. It is, this is the person I met last summer and they said this might happen, now I’m here to take you up on the resources you pointed out. I think those are really important.
MARK STEWART: Just a little bit of a different twist on what Brian set about high school to college or high school versus college, and I can’t quote these, keep in mind that in college — not even AT based, but for example what types of accommodations you are allowed in the classroom are a little tighter, a little different than what you are allowed in high school. If we are talking learning disabilities, just broad strokes here, parents, take a look at Dragon, Kurzweil 3000, Live Scribe Smart Pen. If you’re going to be talking tablet-based stuff, take a look at apps and things like that that we talk about on the show regularly that help in the same types of ways. One thing with regards to the smart pen in college, we found that a sometimes creative, helpful approach is if you have a student with a more significant physical disability, sometimes the scribe they have or even the aid in class might be able to use the smart pen, then they take it back home and use it as a study tool. That’s something we’ve had success with helping to implement. Definitely go to disability services like what was mentioned. Do that sooner than later. They may have tutors and other types of things. We always use disability services as folks that can help follow-up to the work we do in the more short term with regards to training and technology.
The topic of what type of technology device they are going to have, just to start that point up, I mean things like in high school perhaps everyone was provided with iPads of a certain type or they said you need to use this type of iPad. In college, of course it varies, but the technology needed is a little more robust. For example, it often still is PC or Mac-based, so don’t necessarily think that you’re just taking your iPad to college. I would lean towards a little extra on the processing power side for college. If students are able to, I think the majority know have a PC, probably a laptop and a tablet and a smartphone.
WADE WINGLER: The nature, complexity, and volume of the work is going to increase in college. The complexity and volume of the computer also needs to increase.
MARK STEWART: I have on my list the self advocacy, all the stuff Brian spoke to as well. There is my bullet point list.
BELVA SMITH: I have one bullet point. We’ve gone this far and no one has mentioned voc rehab. As a parent, if I have a student with a disability, I hope by the time they had gone to college or two second level education, I am aware of voc rehab because that is what’s going to get them to connected with an AT specialists who is going to be able to help them. A lot of the schools aren’t aware of the new technology. They may be aware of some of the technology, but sometimes what they are using is outdated. I think it is important as a parent to be aware that, at 18, then they become old enough for vocational rehabilitation to help get them the assessments and evaluations that they need and often will help you get the equipment they need.
BRIAN NORTON: As my final point at this, it’s never too early to start asking questions. You don’t know what you don’t know. You’re going to find that even though you’re talking to K-12 professionals who are part of this IEP team, they may not even know about the resources that are available to you. It is never too early to start asking. When you talk about voc rehab, typically at least here in Indiana, I believe it is second semester junior year that they can start working with folks to look at what that transition process is going to look like, helping them prepare for that. We find it all the time in our business where everything gets pushed to the very last moment. It is two months before they are headed off to school. It is June, they are headed off to school in August. They are finally getting to see us when we are trying to make recommendations. What happens inevitably is just a process that need to happen with an evaluation, a report, getting those recommendations approved, getting the equipment and, getting the students trained, that takes some time. Inevitably what happens is that students are already a couple of months into the semester. They are struggling in school, they don’t have their equipment yet, and it just makes for a really difficult situation only for the student but for the parents, for us as evaluators, for the funding sources. It is never too early to start asking those questions and start digging into where does my son or daughter want to go to school. Let’s start talking to folks there. What kind of resources do you have available? Never assume whoever you are talking to knows everything. Keep asking other people questions as well.
WADE WINGLER: I couldn’t agree more. Talk to other students with similar disabilities. If you have a disability that is recognized by a group. If you’re blind or visually impaired, talk to other blind students who are going to college as part of your decision-making process. If you have cerebral policy, call UCP and say are there college student with VCP attending college around here. Talk to actual people who are having that experience.
MARK STEWART: Campus size. Haven’t we run into that? High school campuses are traditionally much more tight, so if it is a physical challenge we are dealing with, the toughest decision-making here where it might actually be missed until later is what kind of the mild to moderate physical challenge. Now you go out to the awesome beautiful spread out campus. We had that with a number of students who have sometimes – it is really quite a decision-making process they have to go through as far as what types of – how are they going to get to class on the other side of campus. Energy conservation and all those sort of things. Frankly we are talking about maybe a student who has never needed a scooter wheelchair or anything like that before, and now the topic comes up just as a way to get to the other class.
BRIAN NORTON: Just a lot to think about. Hopefully this has been some helpful information for you to be able to think about as your students transition.
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BRIAN NORTON: Our next question was actually a tweet. We love getting those. Lots of folks call in on our listener line but we also do receive some tweets. This was from Ashley. She threw out a term we talked about how I’m kind of a bit of a nerd and I have my Docker pants. I don’t have a school shirt on. This a little bit of a game gaming question. The question is are there any accessible MUD clients out there for android? I had to actually Google what MUD meant, and it actually means a couple of different things. For some folks it’s — I found two or three —
BELVA SMITH: Wet dirt.
BRIAN NORTON: That’s what I thought. I’m like, what does that mean? It’s Multi-User Dimension, Multi-User Domain, Multi-User Dungeon. I’ve heard that as well. There is also similar things like MUSH’s, or MOOS. Really what it boils down to is these are all online, textbased role-playing games for folks. The question is centered on are there any accessible one for android. To be honest with you, I found a couple of different links to some different types of MUD clients as far as the accessibility. I’m not really sure. I did find something that was interesting on AppleVis, a really great resource. They do lots of reuse of different apps or games for Mac or iOS devices. They actually had one called Mudder. From what they were talking about, it seems like a pretty accessible game. But that is for the iOS environment. I did not find any for android. Unless anyone else has something, I wanted to throw this question out there to our listening community to see if there is any help we could provide Ashley with finding something more accessible.
WADE WINGLER: I am totally not a gamer. I give up when Nintendo was still the original Legend of Zelda. My go-to resource for everything gaming is my good friend Mark Barlay who is over at AbleGamers. They have emerged that sort of the national and now international resource on all that kind of stuff. If I were trying to answer this question today, I would be heading over to AbleGamers.com and talking to Mark and the team over there. They not only know what’s happening with accessible gaming, they do research, help create more accessibility for developers, even some funding and some great programs related to that. I’m not a gamer so I’m having to point back to AbleGamers for that.
BRIAN NORTON: Is there an email address or way for them to reach out?
WADE WINGLER: If they just go to AbleGamers.com, there’s a bunch of information in terms of contact information. You can sign up for their e-newsletter. To talk about the events they are going to. Mark has been on the speaker circuit. I’ve seen him popping up on my Facebook a lot lately giving a lot of presentation at very heavy, important gaming events. I would check out AbleGamers.com.
BRIAN NORTON: We are interested in the type of feedback we would get an answer to this question. If you do have some suggestions or any information, give us a call. You will look forward to hearing from that.
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WADE WINGLER: And now it’s time for the wildcard question.
BRIAN NORTON: So our next question is the wildcard question. I’m going to throw the mic over to Wade.
WADE WINGLER: I always love it because when it comes time for the wildcard question, and one starts looking around the room, avoiding any kind of conversation. It gets weird. I have been fortunate. I’ve been doing some speaking myself recently and I got to go to New York City for the first on not too long ago. I was giving a talk at Rutgers and stay over the weekend and spent a little time in the big city. This country must want to the city.
BELVA SMITH: Did you see the naked guitar player?
WADE WINGLER: I did.
ARMANDO RODRIGUEZ: Everybody season.
WADE WINGLER: If you are in town square, you can’t avoid seeing the naked guitar player. He wears tighty whities and a cowboy hat. You don’t have to worry too much, Brian. We saw a lot of tourist things. As part of that, I took my first Uber ride. That isn’t something – I have written along someone in a Uber before, but I used Uber two or three times while I was in the city because I have learned to navigate the public transportation very well, and there are times and I was just tired and wanted someone to pick me up right here, right now, and take me where I wanted to go. My question is we have Uber, we have AirBnB, which allows you to find someone who is renting the house for vacation. We are seeing all of these peer-to-peer systems popping up these days for ridesharing and home sharing and all different kinds of stuff. What do you guys, in general, think about these new services? Then what do you think this might mean for folks with disabilities? I’ll preload this a little bit. My Uber experience, we were in a place called Island New Jersey enjoying some amazing Indian food in this Indian neighborhood. I was able to pop open the app, my wife and I hit the button and said come get me, and we stood there on the sidewalk. Because I had put my photograph in my profile, the driver pulled up, knew it was me because she had seen my face, picked us up. I had already told her exactly where I wanted to go. I put the name of the hotel into the app and it found the address. Five dollars and some pleasant conversation later, we had been transported from this place on the sidewalk that we didn’t know we are going to be exactly there to the front lobby of the hotel. It was a very pleasant experience. I haven’t done AirBnB and have very little experience, but I just wonder what you guys are thinking about the stuff in general and then for folks with disabilities.
BRIAN NORTON: I’ll take a first stab at this. My wife uses AirBnB a lot when they go to conferences and things like that. Their company does a lot of AirBnB. They also do lots of Uber things when they go to bigger cities like Boston or other places. First of all, it’s kind of revolutionized transportation. Taxicabs and other kinds of things, they are all at war at this point about what is legal, what is not all that kind of stuff. That is an interesting thing in and of itself. I think what it means to be able to call someone up using an app to be able to get someone to pick you up. The challenge, I think, is when you start thinking about what we do as far as disabilities, accessibility is not always top of mind. Convenience and aesthetics are mostly top of mind when you think of convenience of the Uber and the aesthetics of these interesting places for AirBnB for locations where you can go and spend time. I don’t think accessibility is really thought through. I know there are some lawsuits out there against Uber for accessibility. Specifically I think of folks who are in wheelchairs or have any kind of mobility aids and where are they going to be put if they get picked up in a previous or something like that. I think there are lots of issues and think that could be taken into consideration to make that more of an accessible type of transportation with Uber or vacation spot when you think about AirBnB for folks with disabilities. I don’t think accessibility is really top of mind. I think it is all about aesthetics and convenience.
MARK STEWART: I agree completely. I will lean on Brian’s actual articulation of the issue. I think it’s a river that we all have to go down and all should go down and can end up letting us be in a better place later on. Because things aren’t perfect now with set programs and things like that, i.e. Pretty much in every state. Disability transport services take a long time and those sorts of things. Uber doesn’t do it at all right now. We have to drop our kayak in, get in it. We are all going but it’s going to be a pretty rough river.
WADE WINGLER: I think the kind of disability we’re talking about matters a lot in the situation. For my friends who are deaf and are drivers, because you can do the whole experience via an app that doesn’t require a phone call or verbal communication, I think that is an increase in accessibility. For a lot of my friends who are blind and have a hard time navigating to a taxi stand or they are in an unfamiliar area which is usually when I would find myself using this, I think that that kind of accessibility is incredibly important. I didn’t think to turn on voiceover and see how accessible the actual app is itself.
BELVA SMITH: It works.
WADE WINGLER: It does? Okay. So I think in some of those situations I think the accessibility is better. For someone who has a difficulty with fatigue and just can’t walk the three extra blocks to get to where the tech you might pick them up or the bus might pick them up, I think that is kind of a good thing. On the other hand, if I am a wheelchair user, I don’t know how to tell Uber I need an accessible wheelchair van. I know in the news that Uber is working on that and they are trialing that in some areas, but I also know that there are very slim margins on the Uber. If it is an individual who was the Uber driver who has to own an accessible vehicle, which obviously will cost more and have some more minutes, there might be some more risk or at least some more training and helping someone who is a power wheelchair user get into the van and get it strapped down so it is safe and those kinds of things. I think in public transportation, those additional risks and additional cost to help the accessibility get absorbed by the greater organization. I don’t know how that works with Uber. Do we have all true stick people who have accessible vans that will become the Crusader for accessible Uber because they want to do that? Or will Uber incentivize financially some driver who goes to that extra level and has an accessible vehicle and knows how to handle this unique situation. That’s the thing that fascinates me.
MARK STEWART: It will take advocacy along the way. If transportation was something that was settled out or there was the occasional battle trying to get the vans to come sooner and on a better schedule and things like that. We are going to need even more advocacy and people with disabilities are going to need a watchdog along the way. It’s a fun ride.
BELVA SMITH: I think Uber has done amazing things for the folks that I am working with because I know a lot of people that are using it with their voiceover. They are getting to places on time, cheaper, and they know exactly when the right is coming. There have been some issues with dogs, and I think that’s one of the things they are working on. But my fear is as they do develop or create the more accessible from the rides, so to speak, that will limit, slow things down again, because now I’m not going to be up to get my car there in five minutes because there is only three that will allow me to take the dog. So now I have to wait a little bit longer. Maybe increase the cost that it will be. The AirBnB, I think, is the same thing. Just be careful and make sure that you are communicating well. I don’t know personally how I would feel about it. I would be interested to talk to you more out there about your wife’s experience.
BRIAN NORTON: My wife and their company, they love it. I think it ends up being less expensive, pretty convenient, and really just a concept behind it is fascinating.
BELVA SMITH: When we went to New York, we paid – and I’m sure you can testify to this — we paid an outrageous amount of money for our hotel. We bumped into a couple that were doing and AirBnB, and they were paying like $50 per night. It’s definitely something that is worth looking into.
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BRIAN NORTON: Thanks everyone. I appreciate everybody’s input. Thanks, guys. Belva, want to say hey?
BELVA SMITH: Hey — know, I want to say to you guys in two weeks.
BRIAN NORTON: See you guys in two weeks. Mark?
MARK STEWART: See you next time. Thanks.
BRIAN NORTON: Wade?
WADE WINGLER: Good colorization today, guys. Sorry Armando is gone before we got a chance to say goodbye to him at the end of the show. We’ll have to have them back.
BRIAN NORTON: Again, here’s how to find our show. You can search assistive technologies questions on iTunes. You can look for us on stitcher or visit us at ATFAQshow.com. Please do send us your questions, your questions by calling our listener line at 317-721-7124, send us a tweet with the hashtag #ATFAQ, or email us at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. Don’t forget about the question we had earlier from Ashley and accessible MUD clients for Android. We would love some feedback on that. We will check everybody out in a couple of weeks.
WADE WINGLER: Information provided on Assistive Technology Frequently Asked Questions does not constitute a product endorsement. Our comments are not intended as recommendations, nor is our show evaluative in nature. Assistive Technology FAQ is hosted by Brian Norton; gets editorial support from mark steward and Belva Smith; is produced by me, Wade Wingler; and receives support from Easter Seals Crossroads and the INDATA project. ATFAQ is a proud member of the Accessibility Channel. Find more of our shows at www.accessibilitychannel.com.