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ATFAQ034-07-18-16
Show notes:
Panel: Brian Norton, Mark Stewart, Belva Smith, and Wade Wingler
Q1. CCTVs vs mobile devices Q2. Windows 10 vs previous versions Q3. VoiceOver and Live TV apps Q4. Windows magnifier vs commercial versions Q5. Windows 10 high contrast settings Q6. Pokemon Go and people with disabilities
——-transcript follows ——
WADE WINGLER: Welcome to ATFAQ, Assistive Technology Frequently Asked Questions with your host Brian Norton, Director of Assistive Technology at Easter Seals Crossroads. This is a show in which we address your questions about assistive technology, the hardware, software, tools and gadgets that help people with disabilities lead more independent and fulfilling lives. Have a question you’d like answered on our show? Send a tweet with the hashtag #ATFAQ, call our listener line at 317-721-7124, or send us an email at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. The world of assistive technology has questions, and we have answers. And now here’s your host, Brian Norton.
BRIAN NORTON: Hello and welcome to ATFAQ episode 34. My name is Brian Norton and I’m the host of our show. I’m back this week.
WADE WINGLER: Yay.
BRIAN NORTON: Many of you guys, if you listen before, I was gone last week at a family camp. I’m so glad to be back with my good friends here in the studio with me. I want to welcome Belva Smith. Belva?
BELVA SMITH: Hi. Welcome back.
BRIAN NORTON: Welcome. Excellent. And Mark?
MARK STEWART: Hey everybody. Welcome back, Brian.
BRIAN NORTON: Excellent. Mark is doing some sort of meditation —
BELVA SMITH: That’s what I was thinking.
BRIAN NORTON: I’m sort of wondering what’s going on over there.
WADE WINGLER: Sitting in the Lotus pose over there. From either put him either he put him to sleep with the preshow talk or something. I don’t know.
MARK STEWART: I can finish my thoughts.
BRIAN NORTON: I also have Wade Wingler. Wade?
WADE WINGLER: Hey, Brian. I was camp?
BRIAN NORTON: Camp was amazing. Amazing. I’ve been there for seven years straight and we already signed up for next year. Cannot wait to go back.
WADE WINGLER: We need to do a remote next time. Take a recorder and walk around family camp taking assistive technology questions.
BRIAN NORTON: Likely I’m in the middle of nowhere, no Wi-Fi, as there were some suggested I might have Wi-Fi. I do have Wi-Fi if I want Wi-Fi, but it’s only on my terms. That’s kind of the way it should be in the world, right?
WADE WINGLER: Right.
BRIAN NORTON: Excellent. For new listeners, I want to list welcome you to our show. The way it works is we set around as a panel together, every other week, and we try to answer a variety of different assistive technology related questions. We also receive feedback. I want to encourage people to send your feedback because as we set around here, we try to get our best answer to the question we have, we know there are lots of people with a lot of knowledge out there and we want to be able to funnel your knowledge that the folks that call in and ask us questions. Please take time and let us know not only your questions but also your feedback. A couple of ways to make that happen. The first way is a listener line. It’s 317-721-7124. You can give us a call, leave a voicemail. If you do that, we played on the show when we get those. We also do accept emails. Tech at Easter Seals crossroads.org. Or through a tweet on Twitter with the hashtag ATFAQ, and we go ahead and monitor that particular hashtag. Please don’t forget to be able to send us your questions and send us your feedback, those are a couple of different ways to make that happen. Our first question this week is from Jermaine who is from Champaign. I just love how that rings.
WADE WINGLER: Jermaine from Champaign.
BRIAN NORTON: Will go ahead and play his voicemail and get started today.
SPEAKER: Hi, this is Jermaine from Champaign. This is about the last ATFAQ. The woman who called about getting demonstrations of assistive technology specifically for low vision. One alternative that you guys didn’t mention is I work for a center for independent living, and several of us have grants that are called older individual blind, and it allows us to purchase electronic magnifiers, CCTV’s, and those kinds of things. Typically, although the program is specifically meant for seniors with vision loss, I have used that program in the past simply to show those types of devices to people who are younger than 55 with vision loss. So she might be able to find the center for independent living who has a program like that somewhere close to her. I also wanted to ask specifically Belva why she immediately jumps to the electronic magnifier options. I wanted to get her opinion. Three years ago, when I started demoing electronic magnifiers and those kinds of things, I would demo them, and if somebody told me that they like the electronic magnifier but it was too much, then I would ask them, you know, I would show them what their phone could do. I’ve noticed in the last two years that we’ve now kind of slipped 180 degrees, and we use the technology on the phone first and then if somebody tells us that they need more cut then we move to electronic modifiers. I guess I want your guises opinion on whether you think this is something you guys have seen in more than just the low vision arena. Thanks, guys.
BELVA SMITH: Jermaine, first of all, thanks for listening. We do always enjoy your sharing your feedback and giving us some of your experiences.
WADE WINGLER: Jermaine is a regular. We like that.
BELVA SMITH: Yeah. I think that when you’re saying that I always jump to the video magnifier, I think you might be referring to one of the questions that we had most recently about if the library had some money and were going to put a piece of assistive technology, what would I suggest. I did say a desktop CCTV. So I think you are referring to that. If not, my answer is probably going to be way off base. I guess I want to start off by saying I don’t feel like I always do jump to the video magnifier. Nor do I always jump to the smartphone or tablet. When I meet with an individual, and if we are looking at print access, one of the first things I do is figure out are we looking for – there used to be a little handheld magnifier that was called quick look that has been discontinued. I loved the name of that because that’s the way I think of the little handheld magnifiers, always as a quick look. You don’t want to use one of those things to try to read a book or to read several pages, but to quickly glance at something, that’s great. I think that when I sit down with an individual, I figure out are we trying to look at large documents and perhaps books or whatever. If so, then I always go for a CCTV, simply because though our smartphones and tablets can give us quick access, I think they are good for a quick look, but they are not really good for long reading because your eyes are going to get strained and because it’s just hard to get it all lined up and set up and it’s not as simple as just zooming in and zooming out. Most of the time with your CCTV’s, you already have your level of magnification sets, you already have a contrast set, so you’re just walking up and linger but down or laying your newspaper down and getting your information. So I think I’m answering your question, Jermaine, but if I’m not, you be sure to let us know and we’ll try to get you a better answer.
BRIAN NORTON: I was listening to that question and what I heard was have we seen a shift from automatically recognizing traditionally AT items like video magnifiers and things like that to seeing what someone smartphone can offer before we jump there.
BELVA SMITH: I think that in some instances, that has become the case, because I know that we had that grant for a while where we were getting 55 and older the iPad’s, primarily because it was cheaper. They could put more of them in, they could serve more people. However, I was never a huge fan of that because I don’t feel like any of the tablets or smartphones can really replace the CCTV. You need that clarity, you need that larger screen. However, at the same time, when I sit down with an individual, I do ask do you have a smart phone? If they tell me yeah, one of the first things I do is did you know I could do this you could do this? A lot of times they don’t know. So I’ll make sure that they are aware that their phone or tablet can do what I call quick access to print, but I don’t stop there.
MARK STEWART: Jermaine works for an Independent living Center. Perhaps he is thinking broader strokes here. Of course Bella can cover it conversationally as well. Anybody disagree or follow up on this? It is true, Jermaine is coming from an Independent living Center goal orientation. Belva, you are in the trenches with vocational productivity –
BELVA SMITH: Or educational.
MARK STEWART: Yeah, so you need that you can see, efficiency, efficiency.
BRIAN NORTON: I think there’s always that push and pull between what’s the most effective – obviously that’s probably the primary purpose, what’s the most effective piece of technology for somebody, can he get the job done. But then what are you trying to do with the technology, how is it being used, and what types of functionality do you need from it? Because mobile technologies like phones and things like that, the cameras, the clarity, quality, sharpness of the image, all those things, there is a difference. Depending on what you’re trying to do – there is some push and pull there and we had to figure out exactly what we do. Again, you are right, Mark. For our listeners, we are two things here in Indiana. We are in data, which is the Indiana assistive algae act, so we have broad strokes and broad looks at assistive technology, trying to educate people about what’s out there, but then also trying to get people’s hands on technology. But we also have a comprehensive program where we do evaluations that really cut for the most part, specifically look at vocational needs where they are in a job, they have specific tasks they have to do, and we want to find the most efficient way for them to do a particular task. A lot of times, we look at, to be quite honest, we look at the piece of technology that’s going to get the job done best. Sometimes that is an iPad. And we have recommended those in the past. We have recommended stuff on the iPhone. A lot of times, it is a traditional piece of video magnifier, whether that is handheld or desktop or one that’s for a classroom where you can do close viewing, distant viewing. There’s always the push and pull about that kind of stuff.
BELVA SMITH: I think oftentimes the reason that it feels like we’re leaning more toward the smartphones and tablets is because those are things that we often find that the people that are asking for or need already have those things. So we’re just trying to put into use something that they arty have and also something, I think, you were touching on Brian, something that would do multiple things. A phone is no longer just for placing and saving a call.
BRIAN NORTON: They can do just about anything you want with the computer these days.
WADE WINGLER: We talk about camera and video quality and phones –
BRIAN NORTON: They are getting better.
WADE WINGLER: Apple does this whole billboard series where they took a picture with an iPhone and blew it up onto a billboard and get it to high-resolution things. I would guess – and this is in science – the newest phones with the best cameras probably have much higher resolution than a traditional? $500 desktop CCTV.
BRIAN NORTON: Certainly could be.
MARK STEWART: Part of our job, day in and day out, we do work with smartphone technology, tablet technology, and we and we are already always tracking that exponential growth and capability of those devices. Yes, we are following that. Belva, tell me if you I’m wrong. Part of your answer is just that is that always answer or not at all? You are still using some of these more traditional platforms. Belva, isn’t there one or two devices now that are kind of a hybrid? Essentially you have a handheld smartphone – not smartphone –
WADE WINGLER: Like a tablet –
BRIAN NORTON: That’s a video magnifier.
BELVA SMITH: Yes there is.
BRIAN NORTON: There are a couple of versions of those things where we are starting to see the larger tablets –
BELVA SMITH: Becoming more portable. You can take your tablet with you and use it as a tablet and bring it back and —
BRIAN NORTON: Dock it into a CCTV.
BELVA SMITH: And then have your full-size screen and still have your easy to control buttons and that kind of thing.
BRIAN NORTON: Hopefully that answered the question from Jermaine. We are going to move on to our next question.
***
BRIAN NORTON: Our next question was a tweet that was sent to us from Jay. He sent us a tweet at hashtag ATFAQ. Don’t forget that you can. It’s a great way to get us your questions by dishonest us a tweet. History wasn’t in question form but certainly is a question as well. It is, please do a segment on differences between Windows 10 and Windows 7, 8, and XP.
BELVA SMITH: It was a request.
BRIAN NORTON: Yeah, request. That could take us that we could probably spend six hours answering the question, but hopefully we can drill it down to some basic differences between the two.
MARK STEWART: Especially if you are researching things online about Windows 10. It could take as a good six hours. I’m just kidding.
WADE WINGLER: I first have to acknowledge how disarmed I feel by this question. I’ve been using a Mac for so long now that Windows is my secondary language. What’s the difference between Windows 10 and seven? Three. That’s my answer, the differences three. The Mac I have three big things that I find very different.
BRIAN NORTON: Look at that! The Mac for me, the biggest thing as security. Windows XP is basically so unstable and so insecure anymore, I literally have individuals that are working with right now that are still trying to do their jobs using Windows XP and they are not able to because none of the new browsers – this is number two – compatibility. None of the new browsers are compatible with XP, so if you’re still running XP, I think your start running Internet Explorer eight when actually we are already out to edge with Windows 10. Security, compatibility, and visual changes, yes, but I don’t put too much and that is most of my folks are using a screen reader and visually we really don’t care as long as we can still access things. And then there are some new features, of course, with the newer. Thank goodness we are getting rid of it because it was so unstable that it should never been there. I think Mark has some really good answers for this one.
BRIAN NORTON: I’ll just jump in. I was going to say, I almost feel like Windows has been trying to figure itself out over the last several years.
WADE WINGLER: A teenager, it has to find itself.
BELVA SMITH: It has to grow and develop.
BRIAN NORTON: They started with Windows 7, it had a start menu, everybody was familiar with the start window.
BELVA SMITH: Actually they started with Windows 3.0.
WADE WINGLER: Windows one. Three was when it caught on.
BRIAN NORTON: Way back when. They went to this tile look where they got rid of the start menu altogether. Now in Windows 10 you get your start menu back. I think they are trying to figure out what are the big things for people. So they kind of have tried to move in different directions. In fact, I always think every other version of Windows is really just a test version. They are throwing some new things out to people and seeing what works, what sticks, and that’s usually around six months. Then they moved to something calmly different. I would say, what they’re trying to do is create kind of more of a personal and natural experience for folks, especially with the invention does not the invention because they’ve been around for a long time, but the innovation behind touchscreens and how prevalent they are with technology. Everybody is used to them now because of their smart phones and things like that. They tried to create an experience for folks that allows them to kind of interact with it that have detected a keyboard. Something that Cortana is now on Windows 10 where you didn’t have a digital assistant. I think they follow Mac a little bit and those kinds of things and add things and go back and forth, Mac and Windows, based on what one has, the other ones.
BELVA SMITH: I think the overall development of technology has caused them to make a lot of the changes. I don’t like to think of Microsoft as competing with Siri, with great honor. I just like to think of it as Cortana is their introduction is the ability to be able to do that. What, three years ago, we couldn’t ask our computer the question.
BRIAN NORTON: You essentially told what to do and you could do that. You can just have a computer speed that an answer.
BELVA SMITH: Rights.
WADE WINGLER: If you guys look at this from an accessibility perspective, compatibility with assistive algae or even the built-in stuff, all the way back to XP that’s been a long time ago. That’s been, what, 10, maybe 15 years now we’ve been working on Windows XP. Maybe not that quite long. But what about from an accessibility standpoint? What have you seen as the differences?
MARK STEWART: This might be broad strokes , just this morning you’re having a clinical assistant logic team meeting going over cases, situations, coming current, helping each other out, brainstorming literally around the table. Let me set up that conversation by saying there is kind of a generalization that has happened over the last few months where we understand – we are kind of conservative regarding the rollout of software. But now established with the understanding that, more so than even other lots of things like Windows 7 and Windows 8, Windows 10 is here to stay. It’s going to update itself and they are giving it to you for free. They are really pushing it almost in a different way. The security settings Belva method mentioned is key. We are aware of that and we need to be moving towards the platform for our folks. Now, that conversation that we had this morning was all about frustrations on the behalf of our consumers on a case-by-case basis with edge doesn’t work well with Dragon NaturallySpeaking. We need to go back to Internet Explorer. By the way, this is not checkoff, checkoff, me saying these things. These are my brilliant colleagues, many of which are in the room, knocking these things, the topics off. Kurzweil 3000, there are some issues. We kind of went around with all of our specialties and pretty significant issue with it one of those where you really need to do a workaround or really retrain your computer consumer. Those are things that are issues in the disability field.
BELVA SMITH: I think assistive technology is always one step behind, whether it’s with the Microsoft office or with the Mac, because it takes them a little bit longer to get up and running. Maybe a step behind is the right way to say it, but that’s kind of the way it is. When a new operating system comes out, we never recommend to our consumers to medially go and get that. We always say let’s wait and let’s see until others are ready. For example, when Windows 8 came out, it took – without saying the names, we know them anyway – is that the folks that make the screen magnifiers forever to get ready for the new operating system. Now, I think they were little quicker with the introduction of 10. I think they work a little harder to be ready.
WADE WINGLER: Belva, you’re killing me, because I thought they were supposed to have this worked out. I remember years ago, they were talking about at ATIA where they get Microsoft together with all the manufacturers and they all have pre-released copies of the software and get Beta after Beta after Beta so that, on release day, all of these assistive technology is up and working with the OS. It doesn’t sound like it’s happening.
BELVA SMITH: It doesn’t happen like that. When they say, yeah, we are ready for it, it simply means that yeah, you can get your brand-new computer and load our software on their, but stop there. Don’t really try to go surf the web or don’t really try to do this or do that because you’re probably not going to be able to. I don’t think anything’s working with edge.
WADE WINGLER: I’ve heard that too.
BELVA SMITH: I think Microsoft is going to have to come back and make some big changes with edge because it’s not just, oh, the screen readers aren’t working. That’s one of the things we were discussing this morning, it is everything across the board.
BRIAN NORTON: Luckily with Windows 10, you can still get what Internet Explorer. You can always install that or find that and make sure there is an icon on your desktop for it. But yeah, Microsoft edge seems to be a problem. The Mac is going to stay, and I’m not bashing Microsoft edge. I’m not a huge fan of it but I’m not bashing it. Understating the fact that I don’t know any of the assistive technology that is working with it. And it has caused Firefox and chrome, Google, to work a little harder to be more accessible. In a sense, I guess that’s a good thing.
BELVA SMITH: The one thing I would say that’s been a good thing that’s happened along the way is the built-in accessibility. That has gotten better. Every time they release a new version of Windows, when you go back to Windows 7, the Windows screen magnifier down in the ease of access center, it was okay. It gave some basic features. Now you have a pretty good screen magnifier. Is that what matters is going for? Is that what Mike is going for, to reduce the need of the assistive technology or the adaptive software by trying to, I guess, be like Mac and say you don’t need a screen reader. We have this in the OS ready for you.
BRIAN NORTON: I don’t know. There were several versions back, I know that he go out and the bought certain companies that were the on-screen keyboards. I believe Ben Tech was the company back in the day and I think they purchased that and they made their on-screen keyboard do a lot of the things that Ben Tech did with scanning and other kinds of things. Maybe, maybe not. I don’t know about that. I think that’s altruistic to say as – maybe that’s not the right word. You’ll find that I throw words out that I really don’t know the meaning of.
BELVA SMITH: I do that too, Brian.
BRIAN NORTON: I think they sound pretty cool so I’ll use them. I love the fact that they are developing that internal stuff because it’s going to save people money and in a pinch, people are really going to be able to use the computer in a way they haven’t been able to without spending the money for it. And I love also the fact that they are bringing some continuity between all of their products. Again, the may be something they are trying to follow in the steps of Mac or Apple, so that when you buy a Windows computer, you can look at the Windows tablet then you can look at also their phones and it’s all got the same software. It’s very similar in nature. They got the same look, the same feel cost so there’s some continuity as people buy devices, they are not trying to have to switch modes when they switch devices. I don’t know. Lots of interesting things. Again, we could probably go on and on.
WADE WINGLER: We are not mad at Microsoft. We are just expecting these things in the field.
BELVA SMITH: Absolutely not.
MARK STEWART: It was by a mainstream IT overall compared to other versions. Wasn’t it quite well received in beta before it came out?
WADE WINGLER: I don’t know.
BELVA SMITH: That depends on what survey you are looking at.
BRIAN NORTON: I think it’s been a real struggle for folks. When you moved away from Windows 7 and that traditional look that had been there for years, people just had to switch gears and learn something completely different. With the touchscreen interfaces and all of the tiles and the different look of Windows and how it feels, I think that the reason people for a loop.
BELVA SMITH: And I will say, before assistive technology or adaptive software became so important in my life, if a new operating system came out, I wanted it like right now. But it was when I got into this field that it was like, oh, put the brakes on, slow down, let’s try it and wait and see what everybody else is doing before we actually spend the money and dive in.
MARK STEWART: What would answer the question is, if you are on Windows 7 Pro and you are considering upgrading and you significantly depend on, take advantage of assistive technology software, it is situational, but you really want to think carefully and go through some checks and balances before you upgrade, because there might be some drawbacks or you may want to wait six months until there is a new release, things like that.
BELVA SMITH: Let’s just finish this off by saying July 29, I believe, is the deadline for the free upgrade of Windows 10. This is a good time that, if you’re considering making that jump, check all of your opportunities and see. I will warn you, at the same time, upgrading has been a challenge for lots of people that I know. They did have a check my computer and make sure it’s going to be compatible with Windows 10. They have now removed that. I’m just warning people, I have had people download it and find is not compatible, and now they’re in trouble. They got to go back to their old one. It’s great if you buy a new computer preinstalled, but be careful with the upgrade.
BRIAN NORTON: Be wary and do your research.
BELVA SMITH: And just know that your time is running out.
BRIAN NORTON: Great.
***
BRIAN NORTON: Our next question is one I’m going to toss over to Wade. It’s just a weird question and it was asked in a very unique way, one that we don’t recommend. I’ll throw it over to Wade. This is a friend of our agency.
WADE WINGLER: Brian likes to say here is how you get a hold of our show. You call 317-721-7124 or email tech at Easter Seals crossroads.org or you tweet with the hashtag ATFAQ or you just stop by and catch wait in the lobby and asked the question. So we’ve got an interesting thing happened here. If you weeks ago, I bumped into a friend of mine named Matt who was in our lobby and he said I got a question. I said okay. I started to answer it, and I said wait a minute, let’s record this and maybe it’ll pop up into a show. We’re going to play this unique stop-by question. We don’t recommend you just stand and lobby waiting for us to come answer questions. We are not always here. Here’s what Matt had.
WADE WINGLER: Check, one, two, three. So I’m in the lobby of Easter Seals crossroads. This is kind of fun. A friend of mine from years ago, Matt Burdine, has stopped by with a question. Matt, tell everybody gets a little bit about yourself and then tell them what your question is.
SPEAKER: My name is Matt and I’m blind or visually impaired. I’m going to services here with crossroads and had a question for Wade. My question dealt with my iPhone accessibility and using voiceover to access a news app more listening app with media, listening with media preference. I was having trouble accessing that. Wade was able to give me a workaround to accept that by shutting off voiceover, accessing the app through the touchscreen to open up the listening preference, and then listening to it that way other than trying to use voiceover by itself to run the program.
WADE WINGLER: Matt, the problem we found was common among a couple of different apps. Both of them were live television station apps and you could find the play button where it said click here to stream or whatever, but it just wouldn’t do anything, right?
SPEAKER: Right. It wouldn’t access it normally. You came up with a wonderful work around, great work through that you can ask is that by turning off voiceover, hitting the play button. It then goes into or opens up the at the way you want it and you could read it and turn voiceover back on.
WADE WINGLER: It’s not a perfect solution because there is still an accessibility problem, but we sort of found a workaround. In both of those apps, I think the play button is picking up that, without voiceover, you’ll still find the bun, still hit play, then turn voiceover back on and be able to get the news and find it was going on in the world, right?
SPEAKER: Correct. That’s wonderful, thank you.
WADE WINGLER: Matt, thanks for stopping by and being on the show. Thank you.
BELVA SMITH: Can I ask a question? Was the play button always in the same place on the screen so he was finding it with was over and then just turning it off and going back to the area of the screen?
WADE WINGLER: The apps were television news apps that streamed the live news. If you want to watch news on the iPhone, go to the app, hit the stream live button, and will play. The problem was voiceover being on, when voiceover was on, the play button just didn’t work. You can land on it, identify it, it would say play, he would double tap and nothing would happen. We just shut off voiceover, got him all the way to the point where he found the button, shut off voiceover, tapped it without voiceover being on, and he could either turn voiceover back on right then and have access to it or just wait until he was done listening to the news and turn voiceover back on.
BELVA SMITH: And I’m wondering, I’m sure you are turning voiceover on and off with the home button triple click?
WADE WINGLER: Yeah, or he was also using Siri to turn it off and on.
BELVA SMITH: Okay.
BRIAN NORTON: Great. That’s a question and answer all in one.
WADE WINGLER: I like to be efficient.
BRIAN NORTON: If we had those, we could probably do for the questions a day.
MARK STEWART: Nice job.
WADE WINGLER: I’ll try to do more of those. Please don’t you stop by the agency and start asking questions.
BRIAN NORTON: Please not. Excellent.
***
BRIAN NORTON: Our next question is from an email we received from a person named Scott. He sent us a pretty long email giving us some background information which was really helpful. If you’re going to send us emails and send us questions, background is always helpful for us because we can better understand the question, what you’re dealing with, and then be able to color our answers with that background information that you provide. But we’ll jump into the first question here. Can you compare and contrast the three leading Windows-based screen magnifiers, screen reading offerings, such as AI Squared’s ZoomText, Dolphin’s Supernova, and Freedom’s Magic. It’s really a screen magnifier slash reader that he is asking about. He did mention that, at present, I mostly interested in screen medication but do see transitioning to more screen reading in the future as my vision declines. I think there is a bent towards that magnification piece but also really an interest and wants better understanding of that reading piece of those particular software programs.
BELVA SMITH: I think we are not just talking about ZoomText magnifier or Magic magnifier. I think we are probably talking about the magnifier reader, because we are looking at graduating at some point to the screen reader. I think you probably will need to ask yourself which screen reader do you foresee yourself possibly using, because obviously you wouldn’t want to start out using the Supernova magnifier reader if you’re going to end up using JAWS. Are you in a work environment where the need to be taken into consideration as you are choosing which software you might want to try? And then as far as comparing the three software’s, I guess though they all three virtually do the same thing, they do all three have some differences. For example, we were just talking about this earlier today as well, if you’re in a position where you really need magnification on dual monitors, Magic to my knowledge is the only one that really offers true dual monitor. ZoomText does have dual monitor option, however in the dual monitor setting, he only have magnification or screen enhancement or reader on one of those screens. You’re not going to have it on both of them. I think the call it a mirrored – is that what it’s called? Is it me or where they – I’m looking at Brian as I’m asking. He’s looking puzzled. You can do an extended or mirrored, I believe.
BRIAN NORTON: Mirrored where it looks the same as what’s on your monitor as it is on the next monitor.
BELVA SMITH: I have used that in a situation where I had a parent who is trying to help their child do their homework, but they needed the magnification; however, it was very confusing for their child for that magnification. That normal screen or what should be normal on one, and the magnified screen worked out great in that situation. However, I don’t really consider that a true dual monitor, because to me true dual means I can have my magnification on both screens. Magic does offer that. I don’t know if Supernova does or not. Nothing I found today says that they do, so I’m going to lean towards they don’t.
BRIAN NORTON: I thought Magic was the only one that is true dual monitor.
BELVA SMITH: I believe so.
MARK STEWART: Different magnification? Can you have a different level of modification?
WADE WINGLER: Like 2X on one and 4X on the other?
MARK STEWART: Because of different applications.
WADE WINGLER: That would be cool.
BELVA SMITH: No. I don’t know.
WADE WINGLER: Because you could have your contract in one screen and your fine print in the other.
BELVA SMITH: Now that I’m saying no, I don’t know.
BRIAN NORTON: That’s a great question. I’m not sure.
BELVA SMITH: I don’t know the true answer to that to be honest. Maybe you can, I don’t know. But other than that – most importantly is which screen reader do you think you’re going to want to be using, because they all have a different screen reading engine. Of course, now we have a squared and Magic all under the same roof. You have Magic using JAWS screen reading underneath it and the ZoomText is switch to window eyes now.
WADE WINGLER: Those underlying engines.
BELVA SMITH: And then support. Where are you going to get your best support from? Again, now that they are all —
WADE WINGLER: All merging.
BELVA SMITH: Now that they are all under one roof except for Supernova. Supernova is not in the states for us, so getting their tech support is kind of tricky because they are not on the same time that we are. When we are in the office, they are usually not or not until much later in the day. So just a lot of things you need to consider. I would definitely highly recommend that you try all three or four or six —
WADE WINGLER: Because they all have demos, right?
BELVA SMITH: Every one of them, you can do a free demo. I don’t recommend trying to have them all on your computer at once, so pick one and go with it. So if you think you want to try AI squared, then try your ZoomText and maybe try the window eyes, and then remove that stuff and try Magic. That’s what I suggest.
WADE WINGLER: The analogy I always use is it’s like a car. There are forwards and Chevys and Toyotas and Hondas. The basic functionality is going to be there in all of them, and one may have a bell or whistle that’s different from the next or have one technology milestone ahead of the others, but they, if it’s a good thing, are going to do it again soon. So much with personal preference and taste. That’s why it’s people that they do have the demos for free so that you can download them and try them and see which one you like the best.
BELVA SMITH: Make sure it’s going to work for you at work if you’re trying to do it at work, because I remember something about Magic also works in his or her network environment that AI squared or ZoomText did not. I can’t remember exactly what that was.
BRIAN NORTON: I want to say Cisco.
BELVA SMITH: You are right. It is Cisco. AI squared was not compatible with Cisco and Magic was. That’s very important that you check. Again, that’s why it’s important to check the demo.
BRIAN NORTON: Demos are always really great. Or if you just want to play with those, I’ll also throw out many of the assistive technology act projects have a loan library. We mention this lots of time on our show because, again, we really do believe try it before you buy it. Make sure you fully understand what you’re committing to and what you are purchasing. Many of them had a loan library where you can borrow items for 15, 30 days, maybe longer depending on the particular loan library that you are borrowing from. It’s a great way to get your hand on technology to try it out before you commit to something.
BELVA SMITH: I don’t think cost needs to be too much of a consideration because, basically they are all pretty close, within a couple of dollars of being the same price.
BRIAN NORTON: Many of them offer payment plans as far as purchasing those things. I don’t even think you need 30 days with the product to tell if it’s going to be worth it. I think after a week or so you’re going to have a pretty good idea, is this something that I want to invest in and commit to purchasing.
BELVA SMITH: Again, if you’re at work, look at what the others around you that might be using a screen magnifier, which one are they using, because they may end up being your support person or coworker, whatever.
MARK STEWART: What I’m hearing, that little bit of – tell me if I’m wrong. We are talking about a foundation of three products that are generally legitimate and kind of in the same category. For example, when you bring in things like – just more of what you are trying to say, Belva. When you bring in things like familiarity, okay, I’ve used this thing in the past. Why jump ship? My teacher really knows this one best, those sorts of things. Of course, you get into specifics about jobs or levels of vision or particular problems. There is a safe zone with all of them unless you need to get into the particulars.
BELVA SMITH: I’ve got some, not a whole bunch, a handful of what I consider super power users that that use more than one program. Maybe they use window eyes to do these tasks and they prefer JAWS to do these tasks. Some of that is for compatibility. Some of that is because one works better with the other one.
***
BRIAN NORTON: Our next question is from Scott, and there are two questions in one. In Windows 10, is there a place to adjust settings for fonts like style, color, size, etc., Of the various screen elements like menus, title bars, and so on. The appearance settings that were included in Windows 7 and previous version seem to have been removed from Windows 10. And the follow-up question was any suggestions on setting theme colors in Windows 10 so that they appear dark when reversing and inverting the screen colors. It seems that all of the color options available are dark before conversion but are too glaring when reversed. So when switching from a dark color scheme, anything that was white, and when you reverse it anything that was dark already goes white and then creates glare.
WADE WINGLER: All eyes on you, Belva.
BELVA SMITH: Now that Brian explained that to me, I think I understand the question. My boyfriend expanses this problem because we tried to make adjustments in Internet Explorer to — he has RP — to accommodate his visual need. What we found is it was impossible because it not only would make things disappear, but that became real problematic when he was trying to get to certain bonds. They just wouldn’t be on the page when we invert the colors. If you were in that situation, you probably do need to look at a screen magnifying program. But to back up and answer your question about adjusting your title bar, menu, message box text size and stuff, it’s still there in Windows 10. Here is one of the differences between Windows 7 and Windows 10. It’s there; they just moved and made a little more difficult to find. If you go to your desktop anywhere, not on an icon, right-click and go to display settings and then choose the advanced display settings. You’re going to scroll down to the advanced sizing of the text and other items. That’s going to then become a drop-down where you can choose what it is that you want to change the font size for, whether it’s for your icons, your menus, or your title bars or whatever. That’s how you can change the font size. There’s also that display setting where you can just use your slider to make things bigger, but that kind of affects everything on the screen and not just for fonts.
BRIAN NORTON: Great. Did you handle when things appear white?
BELVA SMITH: That’s what I’m saying. If you can’t get what you need, then you probably need to look at –
WADE WINGLER: More full-featured screen reader like ZoomText or Magic or dolphin. The Mac and I have not had good luck trying to use the Windows settings for doing those colored versions. For your web browser, you can go into Internet Explorer and go to tools, and under the accessibility thing, you can change so that if you are visited links are typically blue, you can change those to be whatever color works for you, and the unvisited to whatever color works for you. You can make those kinds of minor changes, but when you’re actually trying to invert colors and make those massive changes, I guess computer wide, I’ve not had good luck.
BRIAN NORTON: In those ZoomText and Magic – I know in them text I say every time yellow shows up on my screen, I want to see red because I see red better. Any color that appears on your screen, you can pick it out and tell it to show up as a different color based on a ZoomText setting. ZoomText has application-specific settings, so that only happens in Internet Explorer and you want to keep my word looking the same it always looks, and have yellow appear, you can have yellow appear as just blue or red in Internet Explorer and vice versa. You have some real customized settings that you can make for different applications.
BELVA SMITH: Magic, ZoomText, and Supernova, all three allow you to make program specific changes.
BRIAN NORTON: Wonderful.
***
WADE WINGLER: And now it’s time for the wildcard question.
BRIAN NORTON: So our next question is the wildcard question of the week. This is where I throw it over to Wade.
WADE WINGLER: Wildcard. All right, guys. I was standing on my front porch and I saw a man in his 50s walking to dogs, being pulled by these two dogs, and behind him were four teenagers on smartphones looking at the sidewalk walking around. I thought, what are they doing? Then I realized my 19-year-old daughter had said, dad, did you know there was a blue Pokémon bird next to our mailbox in our yard? Then I realized that’s what these teenagers are doing. Their dad is walking their dog and they are pulling Pokémon go, which is all over the news in a super craze right now. My question for you guys, you’ve all had a chance to look at a quick video – we took a break here so that we all have some idea of how this game works and some idea of how it is played. The question is, with Pokémon go, and more and more of these real-world/augmented reality games becoming popular, what does this mean for folks with disabilities? I guess before that question, have you guys met with Pokémon go? What has been your experience? And then what do you think it means for folks with disabilities?
BRIAN NORTON: I’ll jump in there. I’ve not played Pokémon go. Ever since Pokémon came out long ago, I’ve never quite understood it –
WADE WINGLER: Because you are a crotchety old man?
BRIAN NORTON: I am. I’m old now. I’m not into it. However, I did read a blog recently from our own Laura Metcalf, and she made some interesting points that I thought were quite intriguing when it comes to folks who may have anxiety issues and folks with ADHD and their ability to be able to kind of meet people and start conversations. This particular game, you live within the game, and when you meet people who are playing the game, there is something in common. You have something in common to talk about. You’re not having to start a conversation fresh. I thought that’s an interesting, intriguing way to look at it, as a socialization tool where there is something in common to talk about. You don’t have to start the conversation. If you like you could be instant friends with someone.
WADE WINGLER: Sort of a social scaffolding? I had that with my neighbor kids because they didn’t know how cool of a guy was until I said, Pokémon. I think I scored some cool dead points. I expect that a little bit.
BRIAN NORTON: I do have concerns. It’s funny to me because you said you saw some people walking on your sidewalk. There are kids walking around our neighborhood. It’s just funny, you know what they’re doing. They are sitting walking around with their phone about a foot out in front of them looking for these stupid little Pokémon.
WADE WINGLER: Stupid? Judgment, Brian.
BRIAN NORTON: I’m not judgmental. They are interesting little Pokémon. You hear about the stories of people walking off cliffs recently and other kinds of things. You wonder about the safety, not just with physical safety but also information safety. Your information that you put out there is known by everybody or at least the company that creates the game. I don’t think people fully grasp or understand the security peace. Being aware when you use the game. Obviously there are people who aren’t fully aware when they use the game. I do like that interesting take as far as socialization, as you said, scaffolding for folks to be able to work on communication and socialization skills.
BELVA SMITH: I guess I come in being the negative one on that.
BRIAN NORTON: You need to understand the median age for the folks in the room here. We are all crotchety old men and women.
BELVA SMITH: If have got to be concerned that my son or daughter might walk off a cliff or walk out in front of a bus because they are trying to catch a Pokémon, if my son or daughter has a disability, then I probably want to be more concerned perhaps that they are going to be so involved that they won’t pay any attention to their surroundings. I’m also not sure – I get that old, great, we are both playing Pokémon. That gives us something to talk about. But how about maybe we both are reading the same book or we’re both going to the same church. I don’t know. I will say that the church down the street to me, which is a ginormous church on the south side had a car show this weekend, and they were proud to advertise that they had Pokémon all over the place because they were just trying to pull people in. Which is great, that’s fine. At the same time that that was going on, I heard on the news that evening that one of our larger cemeteries here in town has asked people to please stop coming to the cemetery to look for the Pokémon because they found it to be kind of disrespectful. I don’t know.
WADE WINGLER: I saw a picture of a sign today that said, we are glad for you to come get your Pokémon go characters here, but please only come between the hours of eight in the morning at eight in the evening.
BELVA SMITH: I’ve heard of restaurants – we were at dinner Friday night and I saw this lady. It took me all 30 seconds to figure out what she’s doing as she walking around the restaurant with her phone out and ducking down under tables. Oh, I got him! She was chasing her Pokémon. Yeah. I don’t know.
MARK STEWART: That’s an example of bleeding edge technology, right? Cool and fascinating but literal with regard to the bleeding part unfortunately. Maybe another thought is the high volume. Rather than having a little bit of a test population – I’m not saying this is the case with this company, but just generically you have a company who doesn’t think about regulations or safety or anything like that and they roll out some new toy in their own community. They are going to figure out the good and bad of that in the community of 100 people or such. This is the world. That’s another issue.
BELVA SMITH: How to the Pokémon get where they are out? How did you get one in your yard?
WADE WINGLER: I think it’s a random. I think the company that makes the game is just putting them places, I would assume, based on where there is traffic. They want to put those things. For example, we live very close to our local county fairgrounds. One of the gems, which is a place everybody goes to do big Pokémon stuff and people gather, is that the county fairgrounds. I showed up a week before the county fair. Obviously somebody is paying attention to these locations. I don’t know if people are submitting them because they think it would be a good local area or whether the creator of the game is doing that. I’m not sure.
BELVA SMITH: They could put a Pokémon on my roof?
WADE WINGLER: I guess.
MARK STEWART: Do you know how it’s tied into GPS. I’m sure all the Pokémon players out there do.
WADE WINGLER: I don’t.
BRIAN NORTON: I’m sure we have a listener who is a Pokémon expert by now. I know some folks even within our department love Pokémon go.
BELVA SMITH: It made me think about the whole geocaching thing. I see where it is similar, but maybe the geocaching was a little more safe and a little more controlled than what this is. I guess that does kind of take away the face-to-face meeting. But I’m not sure. Are you really face-to-face meeting? I guess you did in your situation.
MARK STEWART: With autism, there is the interaction potential. There is the wellness, getting exercise, anything to motivate you creatively to get out there and put some miles in and walk. It’s interesting, okay, here is some technology that’s getting kids out of the house, right?
BRIAN NORTON: Walk five kilometers to hack an egg.
WADE WINGLER: Laura Metcalf’s article – and I’ll pop a link in the show notes to it – actually has been going a little bit viral talking about Pokémon go as an assistive technology. There’s another one from able gamers. They are friends of the agency in front of the show as well. They talk about how to play the game when you can’t leave home. For someone who might have some mobility challenges or whatever, they have some tips on still enjoying the game without doing that. This is about the second or third instance that I’ve seen of the concept of augmented reality actually showing up in our world. The first app that I saw was one of them called star something — does anybody remember the name of the star app where you hold your phone up, fire up the app, and it shows you the constellations in real time? Skyview, right?
BELVA SMITH: I had on my phone and my son was like, mom, do you even know what that is? I was like, I know, but is not cool?
WADE WINGLER: My four-year-old loves it. All he wants to do is stay up late and go out in the yard. That was the first one I saw where you can look to your phone and see something overlaid on the real world that has some meaningful, in that case, educational interaction. Then the next one I saw was the monocle feature of yelp. The yelp app that you use to find restaurants and stuff has an option called monocle. You turn it on, and let’s say you are on Beale Street in New Orleans, you can look to your phone and it will show you this restaurant and you can click on it and bring up the menu. Maybe they are having happy hour or something like that. Those were the first two instances of augmented reality that I saw in the mentioned that I thought were interesting. This one is another one of those because you do see the real world as you’re walking around gathering the Pokémon. I wonder for folks who might be on the autism spectrum who might not go out and have a face-to-face conversation. But does this scaffold their environment and such a way where they are in the real world with this augmented reality. Are they going to have an interaction based on a shared interest that becomes meaningful? I don’t know. It’s fascinating stuff.
BELVA SMITH: Time will tell, I guess. It will be interesting to see. How long will this be a craze? Will this be done in a month or is it something that’s going to be around for a while?
WADE WINGLER: With some of the other news we’ve had in our world lately, for me it’s been a nice refreshing thing as opposed to some of these heavy things that have been floating in our news.
BRIAN NORTON: Great. I want to thank everybody who called in with their questions. If you have feedback regarding anything on our show today, please do give us a call. Again, you can send us your questions. You can send us your feedback by calling our listener line at 317-721-7124. You can send us a tweet with the hashtag ATFAQ. Or email us at tech at Easter Seals crossroads.org. We definitely want your questions. We definitely want your feedback. In fact, without those things we really don’t have a show. Be a part of it. We would really love to have you do that. I want to say thank you to everybody here in the studio. Belva?
BELVA SMITH: Thanks everybody. Go get your Pokémon but be safe.
BRIAN NORTON: That’s right. Mark?
MARK STEWART: Thanks a lot everybody. Have a great week.
BRIAN NORTON: And Wade?
WADE WINGLER: Thanks everybody. Don’t forget there is a little blue pocket monster bird in my front yard. Don’t come to my front yard.
BRIAN NORTON: We’ll talk to you guys next show.
WADE WINGLER: Information provided on Assistive Technology Frequently Asked Questions does not constitute a product endorsement. Our comments are not intended as recommendations, nor is our show evaluative in nature. Assistive Technology FAQ is hosted by Brian Norton; gets editorial support from Mark Stewart and Belva Smith; is produced by me, Wade Wingler; and receives support from Easter Seals Crossroads and the INDATA project. ATFAQ is a proud member of the Accessibility Channel. Find more of our shows at www.accessibilitychannel.com.