ATU601 – INvestABLE Accounts with Amy Corbin

Hi, this is Amy Corbin and I am the executive director of INvestABLE Indiana. And this is Your Assistive Technology Update.

Hello and welcome to Your Assistive Technology Update, a weekly dose of information that keeps you up to date on the latest developments in the field of technology designed to assist individuals with disabilities and special needs. I’m your host, Josh Anderson with the INDATA Project at Easterseals Crossroads in beautiful Indianapolis, Indiana. Welcome to episode 601 of Assistive Technology update. It’s scheduled to be released on December 2nd, 2022. On today’s show, we’re super excited to have Amy Corbin on. She’s the Executive Director of INvestABLE Indiana. She’s here to talk about ABLE accounts and how these can help individuals with disabilities save for expenses and other things without the penalties that other savings accounts may incur.

As you heard from my opening, this is our 601st episode, which means that last week was big number 600. Now, we didn’t make a big to-do because, of course, last week was our big holiday gift giving guide that we do every year on Black Friday. But I do want to take just a moment out of today’s show to celebrate 600 episodes. While I have only been around since episode, I can’t remember, 384, somewhere in there, it has been really great being here with all of you folks for all of these shows. And really and truly, I guess I want to thank all of you for those folks that have been listening to us since episode one, for those that have maybe recently found us and been kind of going back through the library, or if you just happened to stumble upon us because the subject matter this week was something that you were interested in any which way. Thank you so much for listening. Cause without you, we really don’t have a show.

But I suppose I should also take a minute to thank all of our wonderful guests, not just Amy, for taking time out of her day for this show. But for all the folks who come on over the last 600 episodes of this show. It never ceases to amaze me the amazing folks that I get to talk to on this show, and just learn about all the great things they do to make the world a little bit better for individuals with disabilities and special needs. So again, to all our guests, to all our listeners, and to everyone here at the INDATA Project that makes this show happen, thank you all so very much, and we look forward to celebrating the next 600 episodes with all of you listeners. But for now, let’s go ahead and get on with episode 601.

So saving money, everyone tells you to do it and how important it is, but for individuals with disabilities, saving money can have added hurdles and hoops to jump through. There can be penalties, loss of benefits, if savings done incorrectly. Well, our guest today is Amy Corbin from INvestABLE Indiana and she’s here to tell us about a service that can assist individuals with disability, with saving money and some other things. Amy, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Josh. It’s a pleasure to be here today.

It is a pleasure to have you on. I’ve been aware of this program for quite some time, but I cannot wait to dig in and actually learn a little bit more about it. But before we do that, could you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and your background?

Well, I’m the executive director of INvestABLE Indiana, technically the executive director of the Indiana ABLE Authority, which oversees INvestABLE Indiana. So this is a state run, state administered program through the state of Indiana that actually operates as an arm, or operates under the purview of the state treasurer’s office. So I’ve been with the program since before it started, when it was just starting to get its legs, and started to form the board, and figure out what type of option, ABLE savings option we wanted to offer in Indiana. So I’ve been here for about six years now. The program’s been active for five years. We just celebrated our fifth anniversary this past summer. And prior to this I worked in social work and case management, oftentimes working with individuals with disabilities. But worked with a lot of children in my previous life, with the Department of Child Services as a case manager, to help individuals who were aging out of the foster care system to help them achieve independence as young adults and going on into adulthood.

So it sounds like you’ve kind of been helping folks gain independence kind of throughout your career in different ways, shapes, and forms. So tell us, what is INvestABLE Indiana?

So INvestABLE Indiana is a savings and investment program for qualified individuals with disabilities to save money and not lose their benefits. So to be eligible, I say eligible individuals, so to be eligible for the program, the individual must have experienced their disability or had the onset of disability prior to the age of 26. And if they’re receiving SSI or SSDI, because of disability or blindness, or if they have a qualifying doctor’s diagnosis of disability, they would be eligible for the program. So an individual, again, if they’re eligible, can utilize this program to help save money and not lose those benefits that are so vital to so many individuals who are accessing them. So for example, someone who’s on SSI can save up to a hundred thousand dollars in this account and continue to be eligible for SSI. So it’s potentially life changing for so many individuals who are accessing, can access the program.

Oh, that’s awesome. And not to get, I guess too deep into the weeds, but just because I know so much goes into benefits, and actually getting them. And then if you do lose them, they’re kind of hard to get. What were, before something like this was available, what were the hurdles or pitfalls of maybe saving money while you’re on benefits?

So prior to ABLE accounts, an individual who was accessing benefits such as SSI or Medicaid, housing benefits, SNAP benefits, those types of means tested programs, an individual was pretty limited in their ways that they could save money. The options previously used to be essentially like a special needs trust. They didn’t have a lot of other options. And the pitfalls were that they were limited to saving, and individuals continue to be eligible or who are eligible for those programs are limited to only having $2,000, as a resource typically. So a pitfall would be that if they were to go over that $2,000 savings limit, they would lose their benefits. In steps ABLE accounts, or in step ABLE accounts, to help remedy part of the problem or hurdle the individuals who need to access these benefits, that need these supports in their lives such as those means tested programs, ABLE accounts came along, and allow them to save more money and not risk reposing those benefits. Does that help answer the question?

Yeah, yeah. Yes, most definitely. Because I think a lot of folks just don’t understand benefits. And sometimes I know work can affect it and savings can affect. And really it seems like the weather can affect your benefits. And I know that just for a lot of individuals, you rely on this to survive. And once you’re off of them, it’s not always, well, it’s not that they just start magically up when things change. It’s jumping through all those hoops again to possibly get back on benefits and it can be a huge challenge. So I love that this kind of account is available for folks who need to save money. So [inaudible 00:07:59].

I mention, so I mentioned that someone for example, who’s receiving SSI can save up to a hundred thousand dollars. If they’re not on SSI, they can save significantly beyond that threshold. But there is an annual contribution limit that, it is presently it’s $16,000, so it’s going to take some time to reach that higher threshold of a hundred thousand dollars plus. And so it’s $16,000, presently, that can be contributed annually. But that amount is suggesting, and it adjusts periodically for inflation, and it is going up to $17,000 next year. So beginning next year, beginning of 2023, an individual or whoever’s contributing can contribute to a max of $17,000 per year. And that is from all combined contributing sources. So if mom and dad contribute $15,000 per year and grandma, grandpa, or even the individual from their own earnings, their wages, they can contribute money into their INvestABLE account, and save for whatever they’re looking to save for.

With the money that they’re able to save in the ABLE account. What can that money be used for? Is it open to whatever the individual wants to use it for? Are there certain stipulations or how does that work?

There are what are called qualified disability expenses that the funds in the account are supposed to be used for. But those qualified disability expenses or QDEs are actually very broad. So much so that even basic living expenses can be a qualified expense from an ABLE account. So assistive technology, or adaptive equipment, housing expenses, we see a lot of individuals who are using their INvestABLE accounts to save for a down payment on a home or save for an accessible vehicle. And as we mentioned earlier, as I mentioned earlier, if an individual is limited to only having $2,000 to their name, it can be very challenging to save for many things, to save for just about anything. So we see a broad range of how individuals are using their accounts. And really the best sort of rule of thumb that I offer individuals who are considering this or utilizing an ABLE account is that the qualified expense must somehow be related to that individual living with their disability and the expense can improve their health independence or quality of life.

So very broad, it’s probably easier to consider what can the funds not be used for. And I will mention that the funds don’t, the qualified expenses from the account don’t have to be for the exclusive benefit of the account owner. So if an individual uses their INvestABLE account to say buy a computer, they don’t have to be the only individual utilizing that computer. And I get a lot of questions as to whether or not the funds can be used for a vacation. Well, I always give the disclaimer, I’m not qualified to give tax or legal advice as they relate to, as it comes to qualified expenses. So certainly consult with those, consult with your legal professional or tax advisor regarding any potential tax implications.

But if an individual has previously never been ABLE to save for a vacation, because they are held beholden to that $2,000 resource limit, then if that vacation would help to improve their health, independence, or quality of life as it relates to them living with their disability, then I would say then potentially that travel expense would be qualified. So qualified expenses from an ABLE account are very broad. And qualified expenses were intentionally constructed or defined broadly with the purpose or for the purpose of helping the individuals utilizing the accounts to save for a variety of expenses. And also recognizing that no two individuals who are eligible for this program, and who have a disability, experience the same circumstances in life and have the same expenses. So very broad, very flexible usage so as to meet the unique needs of the individual’s saving.

Nice. And I like that they kind of keep it broad. Because like you said, disability affects everyone so differently. And I could see how for some folks just for mental wellbeing and other things, that vacation could definitely help with those things. So I like that it was kept broad. And it seems like so many times in disability everyone, they try to fit everyone in the same box. So I like that there was some forethought to leave that a little bit open and a little flexible for folks.

Absolutely. And I will mention that you might sometimes hear of ABLE accounts being called 529As and A stands for ABLE. But ABLE Accounts were constructed off of the model of the 529 college college savings accounts. And as an individual is, if someone is familiar, if our listeners are familiar with 529s, they will know that those expenses from a 529 must be used for educational expenses, typically college expenses or some sort of educational professional training. But ABLE accounts, 529As, can also be used for educational expenses.

But if an individual is eligible for the ABLE account, they could use their savings in an ABLE account for much more, obviously, than just educational expenses. So individuals should just think of ABLE as another tool in their toolbox. We do see savers who have utilized ABLE accounts and special needs trusts. We see individuals who previously had a 529 college savings account, and mom or dad might have rolled those 529 savings into an ABLE account with the expectation or understanding that their loved one or their child may not go to college. And even if they do go to college, knowing and seeing that the expenses from ABLE account are broader than just educational expenses.

Oh definitely. I like that you can still kind of use it that way. So I know with the college fund kind of way, some of it’s just saving, some of it’s in investing. So the rates I suppose kind of fluctuate. With these ABLE accounts, is it just kind of like a normal savings account? I don’t know if the word normal’s even right to use there. But there’s a set kind of interest rate or is the money invested in different ways? Does the individual control those things? That’s a whole lot of questions all at once, but how does that [inaudible 00:14:48]?

Yeah. No. I think I can answer that. So with INvestABLE Indiana, we do have seven options total, under the program, that an individual can access. Six of those options are relatively low risk investment options that range from more conservative investments to more aggressive, depending on what the individual’s risk tolerance might be, maybe where they are in their stage of life, their age, how they might be looking to save for their future or their loved one’s future. So we have those six investment options that are essentially a mixture of mutual funds, a mixture of mutual funds and ETFs. And then our seventh option is a 100% cash based checking option that does have a low interest, that does bear a low amount of interest in it, but it does have the same FDIC, it is FDIC insured being that it is a checking option.

And our partner with that option is Fifth Third Bank. I will say, with that being said, the individual still has to go through the program and go online. They don’t go to a Fifth Third location or a bank to open an ABLE account, an INvestABLE account specifically. But with that checking option comes a debit card. So a lot of our savers utilize the checking option in some capacity, whether it be on its own or if it’s in conjunction with the other savings and investment options. And we see about 30% of our account owners that are utilizing that checking option. Because just, coming with that debit card, they can easily go to the pharmacy, to the grocery store to pay for their qualified expenses.

Nice. I like that. Again, choice. I think that’s a very important thing and I like that that’s included even in that part. Because so many times individuals, especially with disabilities, it seems like, this is the program, this is how it runs and you’re going to fit into it however you have to. So I like that they-

Absolutely.

It’s their money. I like that they get to kind of control how it’s used in those ways. Now Amy, I know that INvestABLE Indiana is available to folks in the state of Indiana who kind of meet those qualifications. Is this service available in other states?

Yes, so most states do have some sort of ABLE savings program. And I will mention that INvestABLE in Indiana actually accepts enrollment from individuals who live out of state.

Oh nice.

So if someone lived in another state and wanted to enroll in our program, they could do that. If they live in the state of Indiana and they move out of state, they can continue to have their INvestABLE Indiana account. I do always encourage individuals to check with their home states program in case of any state tax incentives. And I will mention, beginning in 2024, taxable year 2024, Indiana will have a state tax credit for anyone who contributes into an INvestABLE Indiana account. So it’ll be a 20% tax credit of their total contributions with a maximum credit of $500. So an additional incentive for individuals who are enrolled or saving in their loved one’s INvestABLE account to take advantage of that state tax credit when that’s available.

Awesome. Well, Amy, can you tell us a story about someone who’s benefited from using this kind of account? Maybe you know what they were able to accomplish, what they were able to afford. I’m sure you probably have quite a few that you get to hear, but if you could share one or two with us, that’d be great.

So we have a young lady that is enrolled in our program, and in INvestABLE Indiana, and she’s using her Indiana ABLE account, her INvestABLE account, just to save money to put some money aside to save for her future. No specific, no specific. She doesn’t have a specific savings goal in mind for what she is saving. She just likes having that peace of mind knowing that she has that extra money. And that she doesn’t have to spend down her money at the end of a time period to make sure she’s eligible for Medicaid, for example. I do hear a lot of stories.

There’s one young man in northern Indiana who is using, saving money and his INvestABLE account to pay for an accessible van, a wheelchair accessible van because those vehicles are so expensive.

Let me think here. We have a family, parent of an account owner, who opened up their daughter’s account to, INvestABLE account, to save for the future. Because she’s young right now. Her brother has a 529. And they soon, early on in their child’s life, their daughter’s life, they realized that college was, may not be in their daughter’s future, and they liked the flexibility and ease of use of having an ABLE account. So they decided to enroll their daughter in INvestABLE Indiana to save for the future. So we have a lot of savers who are saving sort of all over the map to save a variety of expenses. [inaudible 00:20:16].

Awesome. So just the same way everyone else uses savings.

Yeah, yeah. So like I said, I think I mentioned earlier this program has the potential to be life changing for so many individuals, especially when they’ve heard over and over again, don’t save over $2,000, disinherit your children. Don’t leave them anything in the future because you don’t want them to lose their benefits. Well now a parent of a young child can start saving for their child’s future without fear of them losing benefits either that they’re currently receiving or might be receiving in the future. I do get a lot of questions as to, well to the tone of, well, I’m not receiving benefits or my child isn’t receiving benefits right now. Maybe we’ll look into it in the future. And for the first thing I always say, it’s never too early to start saving. And it’s so important to think about yours or your loved one’s future in terms of their finances, and what types of expenses they might face in the future.

And the second thing is that an individual does not have to be receiving benefits to take advantage of INvestABLE Indiana. So the second key advantage, other than that first huge advantage of saving money without losing benefits, is that an individual can take advantage of the tax free savings and growth in the program. So post tax dollars fund the account and then the money grows and is withdrawn tax free as long as it’s used for those qualified expenses. So two pretty significant key benefits to having an ABLE account that an individual can take advantage of.

Amy, if our listeners want to find out more, what’s the best way for them to do that?

I encourage everyone to go online to in.savewithable.com. Just type it in exactly like that. Enrollment is all done online and there is a lot of information available on our website. I did mention earlier that you don’t go to a bank location. You don’t go through a financial advisor to set up this type of account. A lot of financial advisors are aware of ABLE Accounts and might be able to help provide some guidance. And actually that type of expense is a qualified expense from an ABLE account. So if an individual’s investing for the first time and want to get that financial management assistance, they could use the funds in their ABLE account to pay for that. But again, yeah, all enrollment is done online through our website. They can also print out an application and mail it in, or request an application be sent to them.

And I will mention that if an individual is ABLE and wants to open the account on their own, they can certainly do so. Or if an individual does not want to open and manage the account on their own but has an authorized individual in their life, such as a parent, guardian, power of attorney, those types of individuals can open and manage the account on behalf of the account owner. And even in circumstances where the account owner doesn’t have the ability to open the and manage the account on their own, an authorized individual can do so on their behalf. And there is a hierarchy of types of authorized individuals that can perform such a function or act in such a capacity on an INvestABLE account.

I will mention that I would encourage listeners to, presently there is a federal bill, rested in Congress, called the ABLE Age Adjustment Act that seeks to increase the age of ABLE eligibility from 26 to 46 so that more individuals would be eligible for ABLE accounts. I think it’s an additional potentially 6 million individuals that would be ABLE eligible, should the ABLE Age Adjustment Act pass, including 1 million veterans. So we encourage advocates or whether individual advocates, organizations to reach out to their congressional delegation to ask for their support and to sign on as a supporter of the ABLE Age Adjustment Act. And those bill numbers are HR 1219 and the Senate bill is S331.

Excellent. We’ll put links down in the show notes so that folks can easily find all the information, in order to maybe be able to open up one of these great accounts for themselves, to be ABLE to help them. Just, I mean, I think of all the different expenses, and it seems like everything in disability is so darn expensive, and if you don’t have funding, it can be a challenger or a chore just completely and totally out of reach. So that is awesome that they can be able to open these kinds of accounts, be able to afford the things that they need, and not be penalized for doing such. So Amy, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Again, I’ve known about ABLE accounts for a while, but not known the nuts and bolts, and really kind of how it all works. So thank you so much for coming on and telling us all about InvestABLE Indiana and just all the great things that you all do.

You’re welcome. Thank you so much for having me. It’s wonderful to see people’s eyes light up or that sort of light bulb go off when they recognize and when they see how life changing and how important this program can be. I mean, it takes some time for individuals to sort of change their thinking when they’ve always been told don’t save over $2,000, all those other things that I said earlier. When they realize that this can be accessed immediately, and they can control what they’re saving for, and it’s pretty amazing. It’s an incredible financial empowerment tool. And it allows for economic inclusion of individuals with disabilities who have so far, for so long, I should say, been sidelined when it comes to being able to save. Individuals with disabilities, as you mentioned, it’s so expensive to pay for even daily expenses. So it’s a pretty cool, pretty unique opportunity that I appreciate you allowing me to come and speak about today.

Do you have a question about assistive technology? Do you have a suggestion for someone we should interview on Assistive Technology Update? If so, call our listener line at (317) 721-7124. Send us an email at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. Or shoot us a note on Twitter @INDATAproject. Our captions and transcripts for the show are sponsored by the Indiana Telephone Relay Access Corporation, or INTRAC. You can find out more about INTRAC at relayindiana.com. A special thanks to Nicole Preeto for scheduling our amazing guests and making a mess of my schedule. Today’s show was produced, edited, hosted, and fraught over by yours truly. The opinions expressed by our guests are their own and may or may not reflect those of the INDATA Project, Easterseals Crossroads, or supporting partners, or this host. This was your assistive technology update, and I’m Josh Anderson with the INDATA Project at Easterseals Crossroads in beautiful Indianapolis, Indiana. We look forward to seeing you next time. Bye-bye.