ATU614 – Scanning Pens with Madeline Jones

Hi. This is Madeline Jones, and I am a Director of Education US at Scanning Pens Inc, and this is your Assistive Technology Update.

Hello. And welcome to your Assistive Technology Update, a weekly dose of information that keeps you up to date on the latest developments in the field of technology, designed to assist individuals with disabilities and special needs. I’m your host, Josh Anderson with the Indata Project at Easterseals Crossroads in beautiful Indianapolis, Indiana. Welcome to episode 614 of Assistive Technology Update. It is scheduled to be released on March 3rd, 2023. On today’s show, we’re super excited to welcome Madeline Jones from Scanning Pens on. She’s going to tell us all about the company and the different accommodations and accommodating pens that they offer. We have a story about artificial intelligence and how it’s affecting higher learning and maybe making some changes to accommodations and assistive technology and how it’s used by students. Don’t forget, if you’re looking for a transcript of today’s show, just go ahead on down to the show notes. If they don’t show up there, you can always listen to the show, check out more at eastersealstech.com. But as for now, let’s go ahead and get on with the show.

If you love assistive technology and podcast, then you should check out our sister shows Assistive Technology, Frequently Asked Questions and Accessibility Minute. Accessibility Minute is a one-minute-long podcast that just gives you a little bit of information about something AT based. Assistive Technology Frequently Asked Questions or ATFAQ is a question unanswered podcast that relies on your questions and your feedback to really actually make the show for our panel of AT professionals. So if you love at and you love podcasts as much as I do, don’t forget to check out our sister shows ATFAQ and Accessibility Minute available wherever you get your podcasts.

Listeners, I’d like to invite you all to our Web Accessibility webinar for developers on May 10th, 2023. Renowned web accessibility professional, Dennis Lembree covers an array of topics for developing accessible websites. The training begins with disability and assistive technology basics, and an overview of guidelines and laws. Main topics include content structure, images, forms, tables, video, CSS and ARIA. Techniques on writing for accessibility and testing for accessibility are also covered. If you’re interested in registering for this free training on Web Accessibility for Developers, please click on the link down in the show notes or visit eastersealstech.com.

Listeners, our first story today comes to us from the Christian Science Monitor and it comes to us from Melbourne, Australia. It’s written by Seb Starcevic and it’s titled, Tremendous Potential: Why Some Disability Advocates Laud ChatGPT. Now, if you happen to listen to our sister show of Assistive Technology Frequently Asked Questions or ATFAQ, you know that we’ve talked about ChatGPT a few times on there and just how it may be able to help the disability community and maybe some issues with it. And it’s one of those slippery slope kind of things, I guess. I look at it as I’m sure that it definitely has some tools for individuals with disabilities, but at the same time it can also be misused in many ways. I believe during our conversation on that show it was, “Hey, if I can use this to write in emails or report, why wouldn’t I do it?”

To which my argument would be if it can do all those things, why would I hire someone who uses it because I could just easily punch that stuff in and save myself a whole full-time employee? So there’s always that. There’s also the issues of deep fake, some things like that. I know that some folks worry about bullying as you can take a video of somebody doing something in class or somewhere else and then completely change what they’re saying, doing and everything else and use that on social media and other things to bully them. I know that there’s videos going around of people using this technology to make the president or other famous people say whatever you want, and of course, the danger with that is that you get to the certain point where people don’t believe anything that they see or hear any longer. So there’s definitely some issues, definitely some problems, and this story takes it from the colleges and universities side.

So one of the unseen consequences of ChatGPT is that some colleges and universities are really getting away from allowing you to use your computer for essays and stuff of that sort. They’re going back to handwriting, going back to this… I mean, I suppose you could always use AI to write your term paper and then hand write the whole thing out, but this definitely is a huge barrier for individuals with disabilities who use technology in order to write their papers and other things. And I am sure that there are many uses for ChatGPT and other kind of things like it for individuals with disabilities, but there’s always I guess, that line in assistive technology. And I suppose it’s been something that all of us had to overcome at some point, and what I mean by that is, and I’ve seen it in education before, that there are certain people that work in the education world and, or are part of education that think some assistive technology is, for lack of better term, cheating, giving a bit of a leg up for an individual with a disability.

I would for sure argue that it is not just because someone dictates their paper as opposed to type it out. I would argue that it’s actually not as easy to do it that way, and while it is a help, it is not doing the work for that individual. Whereas if you were using something like this artificial intelligence where I just tell it I need a 5,000 word term paper on insert subject here and it spits it out, that is cheating and there’s no real way around it. The individual is not doing that work on their own with or without reasonable accommodation, and that is plagiarism I suppose. And I guess, that’s a big grey area that will have to be sorted out, and unfortunately it looks like it’ll be sorted out in our universities, in the courts and in other places. I do feel sorry for individuals, artists and folks like that whose art has really and truly been used just to feed these bots.

And now, I can go into an app type in some words and say in the style of some artist and it will make brand new original art in their style and they don’t get a cent for it, so I don’t know where those copyright things go, but I’m very happy I don’t have to be a lawyer in that kind of world. But back to this story, it really talks about those things that we really, really talked about. I mean, artificial intelligence, let’s not lie, it has made some great strides in object detection, in word detection in some other apps and programs that can really help individuals with print disabilities, with visual impairments, auto generated captions, while they’re not as good as the captions that are you actually done by a real true captioner. They can work in a pinch and they can really open an app on my phone or even in some of the conversations that we’ll have with individuals on this show, can really help with captions and opening the world to individuals with hearing impairments.

So there’s a lot of great uses for artificial intelligence out there, and it’s just a matter of, can we keep the disability community in this conversation as places for lack of better terminology, knee-jerk reaction to change things. And if you do start making everyone hand write their papers, is there even going to be assistive technology available on the few computers that maybe someone gets an accommodation of being allowed to type theirs? So it is actually a pretty good story, and I will put a link to it over in the show notes so that you all all can check it out. It doesn’t really get into the exact kind of things that artificial intelligence can do, but I mean, word prediction, again, text to speech, speech to text, there’s all kinds of different ways that it can be used, but as with any piece of technology, there’s ways that it can be misused as well, and I suppose that’s always a worry.

Also, we do have to realize with artificial intelligence, a lot of what it learns, it learns online. And if any of you have been online, I don’t really have social media, don’t really use it a whole heck of a lot anymore, but people don’t always put their best foot forward online, so if you really and truly think these chat bots, this artificial intelligence, it’s using our digital personas to learn. So if you really think, imagine raising your child in that echo chamber of online chat rooms of Reddit, of Facebook, of Twitter, of trolls, of just all the things that go on online, imagine if you thought that was all real, and there are some folks who do and that’s fine. But imagine if you’re using that as your training material, if you’re using that to create this artificial intelligence, how do you think it’s going to turn out?

I don’t think it’ll take long before it’s pretty intolerant of others and maybe has some of the issues that folks seem way too apt to put on their computer, although most of them would not behave at all like that in real life. So the conversation around artificial intelligence will definitely go on for a while and we all have opinions and I suppose we’re all entitled to them, and I definitely have my own and my own worries and concerns, but at the same time we do have to realize this is, I mean, not brand new technology, but to the point it’s at is pretty new, and there’s going to be challenges with that. There always will be, but we don’t need to just get rid of something because we don’t understand it or because we have worries about how it will be used. I’m sure that these things all came up when computers started be being used for school when the internet first came out.

I’m sure that these worries and concerns were all there, but just make sure you’re not limiting access to individuals with disabilities just because you’re scared of how other people or they may use it. Really weigh the pros and cons, find ways around and meet people where they’re at, but at the same times, again, do not limit access for all of your students, workers and everything else just because you’re a little bit worried about how this technology might go. So again, we’ll put a link link to this over in the show notes, but if you have thoughts about ChatGPT, about other artificial intelligence, the way it may be going, definitely feel free to reach out to us again.

We always do love to hear from you, your comments. I’m not saying I’m right on any of the opinions I have. I definitely have worries, concerns and again, a big concern is that you’re going to see some kind of pullback of some accommodations for students because they’re a little bit too afraid of the technology. So again, feel free to check out the story down in the show notes. Listeners, today we are excited to welcome Madeline Jones, Director of Education US for Scanning Pens onto the show to talk about all the accommodations that they offer and how they can help individuals with their needs. Madeline, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. I’m excited to be here.

I am really excited to have you on and get to talk about everything. But before we get into talking about the tech, could you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?

Absolutely. I was born and raised in Atlanta, Georgia, and I have lived in Virginia, Colorado and now I reside in the beautiful sunshine state of Florida. And within my career I’ve been a self-contained special education teacher, a coordinator, principal, segment manager and now I’m extremely fortunate to be working at Scanning Pens.

Well that’s awesome. It sounds like you have just the right background for such a company. It sounds like you know the needs of some of the folks that you’re definitely going to be helping. Well, I know we’ve got a lot to get to today with a different reading pens to talk about, so can we just start with the big picture, and can you tell us about Scanning Pens as a company, and maybe when and why it was started?

Absolutely. So Scanning Pens, it is our 20th anniversary this year, which is wonderful. It’s a UK based company that is now expanding globally, but it is a technology company that specializes in smart pen scanners. And our mission is to help nurture neuro diversity, and we do this by supporting others with their reading through the use of our tools that we have.

And you led me right into talking about the tools. So let’s start with the first one that I really became aware of, I guess, it’s a newer version, but can we start by telling me about the C-Pen Reader 2? What is that?

Yes. And just like you mentioned, we have a wide range of scanning pens, but our C-Pen Reader 2 is definitely the most popular. So this is a portable pen that’s multifunctional, and here are just a few, but not all of my favorite features about it. But first, it is a text to speech reader. You simply use it like a highlighter and you scan over the desired text, then in the privacy of your own headphones you can have the text read aloud to you as many times as you need, which is fabulous. Another feature I love, it has a built-in dictionary. If you come across a word you don’t know, no problem. You scan the word, look it up and you can hear that read aloud to you as well. In addition to this, it’s a recorder, so you can note reminders for yourself. You can put multi-step directions in there, and it’s great for just practicing those executive functioning skills.

I love it when I learn something new on the show, I didn’t even know it could do the recorder part. I knew about the reading and the dictionary and some of those other things, but that’s a really great added feature, just not having to have one other device for it being able to do that. I’m sure, especially while you’re reading, if it’s something important that you want to make sure you remember, I’m sure it’s really helpful for that.

Exactly. It’s super convenient. And then the fact that you don’t have to have Wi-Fi, it’s a standalone device. It just makes it even more practical and functional to use.

Sure. And definitely a whole lot more useful for folks on the go and as they might need it. Now, there’s another kind of version that’s the C-Pen Exam Reader 2. Can you tell me what the difference is between these?

Yes. So the Exam Reader specifically does not store information, whereas the C-Pen Reader 2, you can go back into the history and you can see what words have been scanned, all the different history for your files, what’s been recorded, et cetera. Now, the Exam Reader, that function is not on there so you don’t have to worry about anybody cheating on tests or saving information. It will just simply read the text aloud and that is it, so it’s wonderful for any classroom exams, state approved exams, it can pass.

Well, I’m sure that helps because I know a pretty common accommodation I see for kids is to be able to have tests read aloud to them, but I know it’s not always easy to find someone who has the time to be able to read the test to the student, and it doesn’t really foster independence, I guess, if somebody’s reading that to you, so is that where you see the exam reader used quite a bit?

Absolutely. It helps with confidence, just like you’re saying, in allowing the user whatever age they are to be as independent as possible, and who doesn’t want to provide that confidence and just that equity to them so that they can be able to do an assessment and show what they know without intensive support. It also saves money.

Sure.

Just like you said, having people available to read exams aloud, it’s expensive. You’re having to pay for that. This is a nice way to save in cost.

Well, I know, and I’ll never forget just one kid I worked with and just telling me, one year did pretty well in school with the accommodations, but one year he did bad and the reason was that he hated the teacher that read his test to him. He’s like, “I couldn’t stand her. I didn’t like her. I never did.”

Yeah, that happens.

And now she’s looking over my shoulder and talking to me during my test and I couldn’t concentrate her do anything, so I’m sure it kind of helps with that too because sometimes just having a person, I mean, they’re not looming over you I suppose, but helping you read the test and actually be there in your space. I’m sure just not having them there can probably help some individuals as well.

That is so true. Rapport is important just like you’re saying, and so this is a neutral support for anyone using it, and so it doesn’t come with any biases. It doesn’t come with any bad baggage or previous history.

Very, very cool. Well, as I was going through the pens, I found one I wasn’t even really aware of that I did want to talk about as well. Can you tell me about the Lingo Pen?

Yes. The Lingo Pen is really neat because you can go in and you can do… It’s single word by word translations, so I like to tell everybody, “This is not a pen where you are going to scan paragraphs and then it is going to translate everything for you in context. This is for someone who is pretty proficient in their language, but they need a little bit of extra support with that language that they’re working on,” so it is a word by word translation. However, something that’s really cool about our C-Pen Reader 2 is that you can connect it with a USB cord and you can scan the text directly into a Word document. Within Word, you can then translate it to, there’s roughly 62 different languages in there, and so it will then scan the entire text for you and it will be in context more than just the word by word translation.

Very cool. And man, I’m just learning all kinds of stuff. I love it whenever I get the chance to do that. Madeline, I hate to jump around, but getting back to the C-Pen Reader 2, what’s the differences between it and the original C-Pen Reader? And then when did the C-Pen Reader 2 come out?

It recently came out, I would have to pull up… It was towards the end of last year when they relaunched it, but essentially what they did is they went in and they improved the software. They improved the readability, so in terms of scanning, you can scan faster now and having it read back to you. The AI voices that are used are more human-like and less robotic, which is nice. I’m trying to think of some of the other main updates that it did, but primarily it was to the software specifically.

Nice. Well, just being more accurate and not having as robotic of a voice or some very good-

That’s huge.

… accommodations. Those are some big ones because that really helps with understanding and just with folks actually using it. I’ve learned-

Absolutely.

… over the course of time, if somebody doesn’t like the voice or it messes up too many times or something, they’re going to abandon it pretty quick and move on to something else or just do without it seems like.

Exactly. And it’s also been improved in terms of just the variety of fonts, so now some of the fonts that are a little bit more cartoonish in characteristics, the pen is able to read less errors and the font size, typically size eight all the way up to certain fonts, I got up to size 33 font, which is-

Oh wow.

… pretty amazing.

Yeah, that’s pretty-

That’s a nice range.

… yeah. That’s pretty big, especially for the size of the pen and it’s always hard to describe that on a podcast I realize, but just for listeners to let them know the window on it doesn’t seem to be 33 font size. So that’s cool that it can actually pick up that amount of information while bringing it across the paper, so that’s very, very cool.

Absolutely.

Madeline, can you tell me a story about someone that’s really been helped by using one of these pens?

Absolutely. It’s really hard for me to narrow it down just a one story. There are so many, and it’s funny because recently I was going through testimonials, and the stories just kept going on and on, but I think my most favorite story is from our new Director of Sales. He was interviewing an individual and just asking her specifically about the pen, the usage and she had a student who came running down the hall one day and said, “Teacher, teacher, this pen is going to change my life.” And I mean, that alone just summarizes what we’re all about. We’re all about providing access, making life easier for individuals, whether they have difficulty with engagement, reading comprehension, attention, maybe they’re just challenging themselves and working on higher level reading just to further educate themselves. All of those pieces, that’s what we’re doing. We’re changing lives, and so that story has resonated with our entire team. We make sure to tell it to anybody that we’re speaking to just because again, it touches our hearts. That’s what we’re about.

Oh, definitely. And as we talked through this, just that little bit of independence and like you said, it’s not just for folks who have severe difficulty reading, but even for folks who just maybe are trying a little higher level, or just need that little bit extra. I think that’s really cool. It gives it a lot of versatility, and I know with the folks I’ve used it with the ease of use, so if I just pull it across the text I want read, I don’t have to hold it up or line anything up. It’s pretty simple and pretty user-friendly. It doesn’t take a whole lot of training to become an expert on it, so that’s always a cool thing.

Exactly. I like to say that it’s a pen for people, so if it’s someone who needs assistance with decoding comprehension, attention engagement, language acquisition, just their confidence, honestly, the list keeps going, our tools help provide that access for them. And whether the pens are used as standard accommodations for every student in a classroom or given to professionals diagnosed with dyslexia in the workplace, they make a positive impact.

They certainly do. Well, if our listeners want to find out more or maybe even be able to look at ordering the pens for themselves, what’s the best way for them to do that?

Yes. To get additional information, you can go to our website. It’s www.scanningpens.com, and here you can read about the various products, check out the testimonials, you can learn about different funding types that are available for purchasing the pens, and you can also contact me directly, and I’m more than happy to support you. My email is madeline@scanningpens.com.

Awesome. We will put all that information down in the show notes. Well, Madeline, thank you so much for coming on today, telling us about all the great things that Scanning Pens offer, and just how those things can help individuals with, well, really just all kinds of print disabilities or maybe just some needs and a little bit of extra support, so thank you again.

Thank you. It was my pleasure.

Do you have a question about assistive technology? Do you have a suggestion for someone we should interview on an Assistive Technology Update? If so, call our listener line at (317) 721-7124. Send us an email at techeastersealscrossroads.org, or shoot us a note on Twitter @IndataProject. Our captions and transcripts for the show are sponsored by the Indiana Telephone Relay Access Corporation or INTRAC. You can find out more about INTRAC at relayindiana.com. A special thanks to Nicole Preto for scheduling our amazing guests and making a mess of my schedule. Today’s show was produced, edited, hosted and fraught over by yours truly. The opinions expressed by our guests are their own and may or may not reflect those of the Indata Project, Easterseals Crossroads, our supporting partners, or this host. This was your Assistive Technology Update, and I’m Josh Anderson with the Indata Project at Easterseals Crossroads in beautiful Indianapolis, Indiana. We look forward to seeing you next time. Bye-bye.